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Original poster

DD didn't get into any of our school preferences - any options?

86 replies

HannahTone · 03/03/2022 11:05

We live in an area with really low performing schools, so after having checked the preferences list and admission criteria, we put the further schools as our top 3 choices because we really did not want DD to end up into one of the school nearby, as we heard lots of nasty rumours about them, but then added them in the last 3 choices just so if nothing else, she does get accepted into the more reasonable ones near our house.

However, on offer day, we got rejected out of all our preferences and DD got put into one of the most low performing schools which are even further away than the nearby school I put in number 4.

Now, I just contacted the council and the lady was really rude and just told me to wait till 21st March when the waiting lists will be out and that she will be put on waiting lists for all 6 schools, but given higher preference for the first school. I'm not even sure she knew what she was talking about tbh, but realistically I dont think she'll get the 1st school choice, so I was thinking of getting her to higher preference to the more reasonable school near to us, but I dont know if I can do that?

Has anyone been in a similar situation, do you think I could do that, or does that seem like an impossible thing to do? Please help a struggling mum!

OP posts:
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Lougle · 05/03/2022 17:48

@HannahTone there is no need to be nervous about appeal. The appeal panel will have 3 people. They all have to be impartial - that means that they can't have any connection with the schools offered/appealed for.

You will get a bundle of papers that state the case of the local authority and you will submit your case too, which the panel and the local authority will receive.

The local authority and the school have to give you any information which might help your case if you ask for it. So you can ask for information such as numbers of children admitted into year 7 over the last 5 years, for example.

The standard arguments from the local authority will be about capacity to educate your child and the impact that being over capacity will have on the quality of education for other children.

You can challenge statements in the LA's case. For example, they may say "the corridors are narrow and extra children will increase the risk of accidents". You can say, for example, "In 2018, when you took 5 pupils over the PAN, how many accidents were there in the corridors?" The likelihood is that the answer will be "None".

The appeals panel has no vested interest in admitting your child and equally, has no vested interest in rejecting your appeal. They are simply a group of people who assess whether your appeal is strong enough to override the decision not to admit.

titchy · 05/03/2022 17:40

please listen to prh47bridge she is an expert on admissions, and her advice is gold dust.

He Wink

steppemum · 05/03/2022 17:29

@prh47bridge

Your order of preferences makes no difference to your position on the waiting lists. There is, therefore, no point changing your order.

The council is required to tell you why you didn't get a place at any of your preferred schools and tell you how to appeal. If you haven't had that information yet, it should arrive shortly. If you still haven't got it by the end of the week, you should chase them.

Once you get that information, you can check that they have put your daughter into the correct admission category for each school and that the home to school distance looks right. If either of these is wrong, it suggests a mistake has been made and you should take it up with the council, although they may insist that you appeal even if it is clear that there has been a mistake.

Even if there hasn't been a mistake, you can appeal for as many of the schools you applied for as you want. Note that you can't win an appeal on the basis of the allocated school being low performing and wanting a better one. You need to show specific things that the appeal school offers that are not available at the allocated school and are relevant to your daughter..

some of the things posted on this thread are wrong and confusing.

please listen to prh47bridge

she is an expert on admissions, and her advice is gold dust.

needanewplannow · 05/03/2022 17:22

Of DD's friends who got into the school, do any of them live further away than you? If so, then it looks like a mistake has been made. If not, then probably it's just that you live that bit too far away this year.

If you really want DD to go to the other schools, can you move? That will bump her up the waiting list.

ChildOfFriday · 05/03/2022 17:18

@HannahTone Definitely accept the place you have been offered. It won't affect your position on the waiting lists or any appeal that you decide to make, and as you said it will ensure that your DC has somewhere to go in September if worst comes to worst and you don't get into other schools through the waiting lists or appeals.

I know appeals can be daunting but there are posters on here who are very knowledgeable about them and can help you to put your case together.

Original poster
HannahTone · 05/03/2022 17:14

I called the LEA yesterday and had an hour long conversation on the next steps I should be taking, and one of them advised me to make an appeal for our 4th choice as well as our 1st, even if it might not be accepted, we'd at least have given it a shot.

I am quite apprehensive and nervous about appeals tbh, but I might give it a shot as I really think DD would do much better at a higher performing school that has good support and people she feels she can relate to, rather than the one she got offered into. Meanwhile, I'll also keep checking the waiting lists and adding her onto other nearby schools.

However, I am so stressed out that I either forgot or didn't ask, but would the application for other schools that were not in my original list be done through the LEA, or directly through the school?

Also, we have received a letter from the offered school to accept it by the 9th and send in the appropriate documents, so I was wondering if I do accept our current offer, just to ensure DD doesn't end up with no school place by September, would that mean DD would be removed from the waiting lists and/or that I wouldn't be able to make an appeal, or does it have no bearing on it?

Thank you!

OP posts:
boyblue · 04/03/2022 20:10

OP you didn't get into the schools as the maximum number of places were taken by children than fit their criteria better. If the last distance for the last child was closer than you are, you don't get a place.
You then get allocated the nearest one to you with places left over after all their applicants processed. Where ever that may be.
Put yourself on the wait list of any you would consider.
Don't listen too much to idle gossip about schools.

HomeHomeInTheRange · 04/03/2022 16:13

OP: the school has to publish the admissions policy and criteria on their website.

When LAs or schools publish the ‘last distance admitted’ it refers to the last distance admitted on Allocation Day. The distance usually extends once all the waiting lists have been dealt with.

Don’t despair: there is usually quite a lot of movement after the deadline to accept or reject places . They usually leave it a short while to check that everyone who doesn’t respond isn’t a result of a lost message etc.

Then after that you can usually add yourself to any other schools that you might like to consider, not just the original list.

People may have moved out of the area, accepted a private place, etc etc.

Good luck!

ChildOfFriday · 04/03/2022 15:55

@Prepaway We're not the ones derailing the thread Confused I apologise if I came across as rude but it does get exasperating when it's about the 3rd or 4th time you have to correct the same misconception because people don't bother to read the thread. It's very important to me that parents understand the system to give their DC the best chance of getting into their preferred schools, and people continually posting the outdated 'first preference first' system reduces the chance of this.

Prepaway · 04/03/2022 15:48

I think @ChildOfFriday & @Comefromaway need to chill, I clearly stated I hadn’t read the full thread and I stated I was guessing, not an expert. It’s an Internet forum where people can give opinions, I gave mine regardless of whether I was right or not, that’s the great thing about an Internet forum I’m fully entitled to give options, speculate and yes, guess if I want to.

All you had to do is say actually that’s not true based on x, y & z instead of derailing the thread and getting shitty 🙄

ChildOfFriday · 04/03/2022 15:41

@Prepaway Of course it is misinformation if what you post is incorrect, which it was. Totally agree with what @Comefromaway said. This forum is meant to help people with their school applications by providing correct advice, not repeating misconceptions that have already been explained to be wrong many times on the very same thread.

Comefromaway · 04/03/2022 15:37

It is spreading mis-information if you are guessing at a process you clearly know nothing about which is clearly set out in law. If you don;t know how admissions work, then say so, don't guess.

Prepaway · 04/03/2022 15:36

[quote ChildOfFriday]@Prepaway You guess wrong. That is NOT how the system works as has been explained many times on this thread. Please don't spread misinformation. The equal preference system has been law in England since 2007, and the OP did not disadvantage her DC by putting the closer schools lower down on her list. [/quote]
How am I spreading misinformation, I clearly stated I had not read the full thread and I stated I was guessing. Stop getting your knickers in a twist because my thoughts in the matter may not be correct.

Comefromaway · 04/03/2022 15:33

Sorry NRTFT but if your DD didn’t get 4th choice I’m guessing it’s because those who put it as 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice filled up any spaces before anyone who placed it as 4th choice.

And if you HAD read the full thread you would see that this is NOT the case as it is illegal to give priority to someone just because they have put a school as 1st or 2nd choice instead of 4th.

Person A puts School X as 1st choice and School Y as 2nd choice. Person A lives 0.7m from school

Person B puts School X as their 4th choice and lives 0.5 m from school.

The available place goes to Person B

ChildOfFriday · 04/03/2022 15:31

@Prepaway You guess wrong. That is NOT how the system works as has been explained many times on this thread. Please don't spread misinformation. The equal preference system has been law in England since 2007, and the OP did not disadvantage her DC by putting the closer schools lower down on her list.

Prepaway · 04/03/2022 15:28

[quote HannahTone]@PsychologyMum100
Thank you so much, it is really helpful! It really does feel like I'm rocking the boat alone.

I have just been contacting schools directly and asking them what to do and if they can put DD on their waiting lists, and so far I think she is automatically been put into all our preferred choices, but just contactign to get her higher in the place and do whatever we can.

I honestly was not aware it'd be this chaotic, but I really think there should be regulations on Ofsted rating as basis for school preference, because how else are we going to see whether the school is a well or low performing school? And even then, like you said, we didn't even get the school that was 5 mins away from us, which boggles my mind.

But, hopefully we can get it through the waiting lists!! I honestly dont want to appeal either, as it would just add more to my stress, and I dont think we have a strong case either.

Thank you for your help!![/quote]
Sorry NRTFT but if your DD didn’t get 4th choice I’m guessing it’s because those who put it as 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice filled up any spaces before anyone who placed it as 4th choice.

LadyLazarus40 · 04/03/2022 12:18

Also the allocations for this year should be on line - if you Google countyname secondary school allocations 2022 you should be able to find them (that brings the up for my county)

LadyLazarus40 · 04/03/2022 12:15

@HannahTone the admissions policy will be on the school website

Original poster
HannahTone · 04/03/2022 12:13

[quote LadyLazarus40]@HannahTone so you weren’t catchment for any. How far in distance for non catchment did school 4 offer to - that’s the key - if it offered further then you then there may be an error if not then that’s the reason why you weren’t offered. Your council will have on line the info regarding the distance offered and probably also a distance calculator to check your house.[/quote]
We don't know whether we are or aren't catchment for school 4 as it does not have any information under the admission arrangements' LEA page, so I'm going to need to ask, nor does it say the previous admission patterns.

OP posts:
LadyLazarus40 · 04/03/2022 12:11

@HannahTone all schools will have an admissions policy on line (it is a requirement) detailing exactly how places are allocated.

LadyLazarus40 · 04/03/2022 12:10

@HannahTone so you weren’t catchment for any. How far in distance for non catchment did school 4 offer to - that’s the key - if it offered further then you then there may be an error if not then that’s the reason why you weren’t offered. Your council will have on line the info regarding the distance offered and probably also a distance calculator to check your house.

Original poster
HannahTone · 04/03/2022 12:05

@LadyLazarus40

Have you read the admissions policy for each school you applied to? It will state in detail how places are allocated. Eg it will show priority prob something like this: 1. Children in care 2. Catchment siblings 3. Catchment by distance 4. Distance. Then be clear what category you fall into eg are you catchment or not.

You then need to cross reference this with the details given by your council for each school showing how they allocated places. This will allow you to see if a mistake has been made.

If however they only offered to say catchment up to 0.5 mikes and you are catchment 0.6 miles you will not get a place. Similarly if they only offered in catchment and you live out of catchment then no place.

It works on an equal preference so you will be offered your highest placed school which you meet the admissions criteria for. If you do not meet the admissions criteria for any of the schools you listed then you will be offered the closest school which has a place (which it sounds like is the case with you).

I have checked the admission criteria and DD would only meet the distance from school.

Our dilemma was just that we didn't like most of the schools in our catchment and so, we put in schools that were further away just so she could get into a good school (furthest one is 1.5 miles), but that still doesn't explain why she didn't get offered to the nearest school put in the list.

The 4th choice school doesn't have these details on the admission process which I admit was probably my mistake for not checking it out beforehand, whereas the other schools do.

But, I wanted to ask how do I check how the LEA has allocated places, is that through the admission criteria or am I missing something?

OP posts:
Original poster
HannahTone · 04/03/2022 11:56

Wanted to give an update, thank you so much for all of your responses so far!
I've found out by calling all our rejected choices that we can't do anything atm, as they will receive waiting lists on the 15th, so then I'm planning on probably going to each school and asking for where DD is at.

I have looked into the admission criteria once again for each choices, but we don't fill most of it anyway as I dont any other child or work for any of the schools, so the only criteria DD would be meeting is distance, which is why I'm guessing she's got the place for the other school. This really has made me hopeless as I don't think she's be able to get into the other schools as we live quite far, unless we move.

I'm still dreading to contact the LEA, but I'm going to do that in a while, and still have not received any letter explaining the reasons for rejection so I don't even know what I should be asking them anyway!

I am trying to be hopeful, but I really don't know what to expect!!

OP posts:
HomeHomeInTheRange · 04/03/2022 09:47

@Lily737 if you are in England and Wales it terrifies me that people with such a serious level of lack of knowledge and understanding work in a primary school and might be passing on this misinformation to parents.

The Equal Preference system is LAW in England and Wales. The system you describe: first choices allocated first etc, is illegal.

Please take this seriously and stop spreading damaging misinformation.

boyblue · 03/03/2022 23:43

I'm shocked how many times schools give out wrong info. A new high school near us told everyone at open day that they needed to put it first to get a place. HT said it.