Do you like your system?

I was born and raised in one of the 5 boroughs in NYC (not Manhattan). It was easy to find good school districts - but need to pay the property taxes ($8k, $18k, $40k+p.a). It’s like paying for private schools in London (obvs works out better if you have 2+ kids). So unless you want to keep paying those property taxes forever (i.e. tuition), when your kids move out you will probably downsize or move out of the area soon after! But your kids are sorted from elementary through to high school, no hassle.

I never saw any new schools built despite the growing population (too dense). I only noticed my high school bulging at the seams during my last 2 years - they added a few trailer classrooms and by my last year, there were shifting start/end schedules for different year groups to minimise the congestion. I graduated from a high school of approx 4k students and it all still felt very “chill”.
I much prefer the flexibility of the US system and not having to deal with A levels and choosing subjects at 16.

As others mentioned, there are honours and AP classes to stretch kids. There are also specialised high schools which you can travel across boroughs for.
The real decision-making wasn’t until looking into universities but even then you have the flexibility to change/move around as long as you do all your general electives and major in last two years (unless you were going into med or law).

Middle schools are different across the board here - we sent our son to a smaller ones that I think caps out at 900 kids, two other main non-charter options both have 2000 kids in each and there is def a feeling of sardines stuffed into a tin in the classrooms of up to 40 kids! Charter schools are much smaller, one highly praised one locally has max 25 kids and another that does IB locally has 15 in a class

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer I'm from textbook middle America, I don't think I appreciated it much growing up, but having spent ten years over here, and having gone from loving to loathing London, and now having a kiddo who will be nearing school age in the next few years, I'm really excited to be getting back!

I don’t really understand how our Property taxes are so incredibly high (Westside Los Angeles) and yet as a parent community we still have to raise $360,000 per year to pay for:

• art teacher
• music teacher
• science lab
• computer teacher
• 2 PE coaches

And a whole flipping 4th grade teacher because the district only gave the school enough money to mean we originally had 2 4th grade and 2 5th grade teacher and one that taught both grades at the same time.

But then our kids are lucky they live in an affluent area where the parents can raise these kinds of funds - there are a LOT of schools utterly failed in our district thanks to poor finances.

In terms of a system I have no experience at all but I feel like IB is the perfect inbetween solution between US and U.K.

Also I don’t think the US system challenges children properly. My DS is bright but not extraordinary, he’s in honours classes for everything and AP for maths and English and is bored, gets A’s across the board and is under challenged which isn’t great at the age of 13. And there isn’t one system - at his middle school alone there is the normal day to day system, kids in the language magnet (which he is in), kids in language immersion, and then this new IHP program for very academic kids. There are pros and cons to this but I do really like his MS despite my bashing of the system!

The magnet points things is outdated and now does the opposite of what it was supposed to do in LA, originally brought it to try to break segregation and offer opportunities for non-white kids to attend (better) schools outside of their local areas where their families were forced to live, because it hasn’t been adjusted for the change in population demographics now all it means is that WHITE kids actually have more options because the demographics have changed considerably since the 60’s. Every year you have ti apply to a magnet school you know is oversubscribed because you get points if you apply and don’t get in, the more points you have the more likely you are to then get into a school when you do want to go (as mentioned we used ours to go to the language magnet) but you lose your points if you’re offered a place and you turn it down - but you also need to understand how to navigate that.

Re pledge of allegiance at our elementary school they just do once a week in assembly on Monday, I actually don’t know about the middle school!!

I grew up in a suburb of Boston 70s-80s and school was as OP described. You went to your local school which was fairly evenly distributed throughout the area. Then there was one big high school we all went to. If it was a big birth year tough the school HAD to accommodate you - enter those temporary classrooms. They are also obliged to educate you no matter what your disability- a young girl I know with severe autism attends a specialist school which the city pays for as they cannot provide adequate provision within the state system. (It's not automatic, there are specialist lawyers who fight your case with the City).
High school you were either in basic, standard, honours or for a few Advanced Placement. I always wondered myself about GPAs - how does anyone know if an A at one school is the same as another? But it seems to work.
What I do like particularly about the US system is you do not have the equivalent to GCSEs or A levels, and you carry on studying a wide variety of subjects til 18 - no having to decide at 15 or 16 three subjects that take you in a narrow direction. My own daughter is in the UK and really resented having to drop her science- she is going into the creative arts but would have loved to do Physics and Biology at A level along with the three she is taking. In the US she could have.
There may have been homecoming etc in my school but I wasn't into that so it bypassed me.
What I don't like about the system here (other than the exam system mentioned above): there is little 'choice' ñ. we applied to our four nearest schools and did not get into any. The schools are clustered together where we are (sw London) so one child might be nearer three schools than we were to any school, and we were in the expensive part! So expensive that maybe it was assumed we'd go private, which we did in the end.
Of course property prices are affected by the quality of the school in both countries, but it doesn't always follow if you live in an expensive neighbourhood you have a good (or any in our case) state school. But unless schools are spread out there's always going to be issues. And the stress of getting your child into the next stage is ridiculous. Imagine having NONE of that.
You must have an undergraduate degree to do medicine and other specialist careers. And yes there are entrance exams. And the cost: it's about $300,000 to get through all your medical training if not more (this doesn't un held living expenses). A private university (most are, States have there own but quality not always the best), is average $35,000/year plus living expenses on top. State are about $10k/year. University degrees are four years, a masters usually two. Universities and colleges are pretty much interchangeable, though a university may be made up of different colleges. The umbrella term is still 'school'.
Other things which may have been particular to my area is in elementary school (kindergarten to eight grade - eighth grade is like Y9) is we had a system where all students did a few weeks of woodwork, then sewing, then cooking and so on. Learning to see was great and did a lot throughout my teenage years.
Also very few kids went private - only three did from my school and it was an affluent area (and with a very good school system). Our property taxes paid for it - much much higher than council tax, paid annually. .

Around I'm in Hants where state schools run y7-y11 only (there are a very few exceptions). I think the fact they have to make a positive choice for 6th form is a massive plus. I see too many threads on here of DC staying on at school because it is safe even if it isn't the best choice academically for them.

However for less mature or more vulnerable students moving to a large college without the teachers knowing them / their strengths, plus reduced pastoral care can be an issue. Both my DDs have to some extent been impacted by this.

We have at least 7 colleges within reach, DD2 is at the agricultural one, DD1 attended a mixed A level / BTEC one.

What do people think is the best age group separation? DD will be going to an 11-16 school. Is 11-14 then 14-18 better? 11- 18? Starting secondary at 12 or 13?

I do like the fact at 16 she will have access to a massive range of options not just A levels in academic subjects... although the College has 1000 per year roughly which seems massive!

For example, in my experience, when I started kindergarten, it was a new school. By the time I had reached third grade, the school began development of a new wing to introduce four new classrooms, and by the time I was in fourth grade, they began work on four more classrooms. The school still felt like a small school, it was designed well to keep the older kids and younger kids in separate parts of the building, with small classes but ample space for recess (three playgrounds with basketball courts, 'four square' courts and tether ball courts. The kids at my school came from three major neighbourhoods, all very close together. There were maybe a dozen elementary schools in my home town, four middle schools and two high schools (1400-1700 students in each high school).

What happens if you get a big birth year in an area? Do the classes just get bigger to accommodate the kids? I like the fact class sizes are capped, and guess the shifting school catchment are a consequence of that.

We are actually moving to the states to get away from the education system here before our son enters school. While I know the us system is changing since I grew up there, they start formal education a whole year early here, against all research findings 🙄. Plus the inane emphasis on handwriting, it seems so tedious. My husband is on SLT at an indie here, and we both think the American experience sounds far preferable--that said, as has been pointed out the American system is so variable based on the state you are in... Where we are moving, by 6th grade you have a vast variety of electives to choose from every year (2-4/year in grade 6-8, alongside timetables extra curricular classes after lunch) ranging from creative writing to modern dance, and in high school you can actually have up to eight elective classes in a year by senior year. This could be leadership, entrepreneurship, studio art, modern dance, yearbook, university style niche history/humanities classes, or even a media class that produces a TV show on the local cable access channel. As someone mentioned, no, we don't have standardised tests for all subjects and this is GREAT. There actually is no need to rank students in the way the UK does or make university so elitist, any student that can learn and pass at university level gets the opportunity. School is not stressful, school is fun, students develop a love of learning, explore their interests in the classroom, have an education that is truly tailored to what they love and are allowed to be kids without stressing and worrying about nonsensical exams that involve far too much rote memorization and exam taking technique, all of which has no real world value. It's great that the IB is becoming more popular here, but the UK system is so focused on keeping the rich at the top of the exam tables that it has sacrificed focusing on the whole point of education, which is to learn and to learn to love learning.

What everyone actually wants (everywhere) is for their local school to be a good one. This is the ideal.

I agree.

This has been really interesting OP, thank you for starting the thread, though it has turn a bit into an AMA for you. It shows that the 'simple' US system isn't always as simple too and as always the organised/richer parents get more choice in reality.

Do all US schools have to do the Pledge of Allegiance daily?

90% of England probably just gets on with schools similarly to the US. Just the 10% are very vocal on MN (especially London private & Grammar kids).

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer, San Diego. Apparently they pioneered the magnet system for voluntary racial integration. Seems to me that LA had mandatory bussing, not popular. You could sign up for your local school but were encouraged to go into the magnet system, from about start 3rd grade. So busses everywhere. Also attended an across town special programme in elementary for other reasons for one year, our parents transported us for that.

My USA relatives in last 20 years, only the poor ones simply send their kids to local school. All the others seem to have gone on alternative path. Home schooling (some for religious reasons, others anticharter / antivacc ), "no school is good enough" -> Montessori private, Catholic private .... A lot of Catholic private. I perceive a lot of angst.

What everyone actually wants (everywhere) is for their local school to be a good one. This is the ideal.

Parents selecting schools was introduced in the The Education Reform Act of 1988, under Thatcher. The believe was it would introduce a market in education, with better schools growing and lesser ones failing; it wasn't aimed at improving the lot of the pupils but was about introducing political dogma into education.
It was popular with the middle classes who could use it to ensure their children went to the 'right' school, plus a dog whistle to those who didn't want their children to mix with people from different cultures, as these were the core of Tory voters it was deemed a success.

Aren't American HS huge though? Only one for a whole town means they'd have to be. In comparison, there are 90 kids in DD year.

I'm in Ireland and secondary applications are serious work. There are 7 secondaries in my town, but you have to apply to each separately and they all want different info and are on different time lines. And all have their own unique admission rules. Many of them are oversubscribed now and lotteries for places are very common. Thankfully we got DD into a coed school so have automatic sibling priority. My friend has no place for her DC as she missed one deadline and didn't get into any other school. There is a community secondary which is obliged to take all, if you apply
But there is epic snobbery about them in many areas.

I don't like the secondary school system at all. Schools are much too big and there is far too much pressure on teenagers to do well, and the system is failing so many pupils. There is a mental health crisis in this age group. We need to have a complete rethink of the education system in this country as Finland did years ago, and now has an excellent system that works for students and in terms of results globally.

Sadly, we have a government who'd rather piss away money on Brexit and is not interested in putting the money into schools.

As with anything when discussing the US, it’s such a vast country with vast differences and I can’t even tell you what it’s like in California, just Los Angeles!! So I might gently suggest your opening post is a tad misleading as certainly the system you describe (which does sound great by the way) definitely doesn’t exits across the whole country

I guess with any system for further education it won’t suit everyone! I personally wish I’d been able to do 5-6 A’levels but my DH was perfectly happy with his over eager maths 3 options!

Hilariously I actually think High School is better for a lot of kids than 6th form, it sucks to reduce your classes to 3/4 at aged 16 especially for all rounders who don’t know what they want to do when they grow up!

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer yeah sorry, I’ve found the whole system post elementary (and actually in elementary as well considering the only schools that get things like art and music teachers and science labs and dedicated computer teacher are ones that can fundraiser from parents to get them) very frustrating.

Re your son doing cookery - what if a school doesn’t offer that as an elective? Because I don’t think any of the MS my son’s friends are at offer it whereas in most schools in the U.K. you get to do food tech when doing the design and technology classes - my son has already decided to do it at GCSE. The fact that it’s not compulsory to learn a language ever beggars belief - especially here in California where Spanish is spoken EVERYWHERE

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer Yes I appreciate you did clarify that you live in your specific area in later posts, and I didn't mean to be antagonistic. I personally hate that the kids don't get exposed to all subjects in MS, if you want to do a language in my pretty huge area you have you to go to a magnet program or you have to commit to your elective always being a language, if you want to do music you have to commit to a full year doing orchestra or choir - but what if you don't sing or play an instrument, how do you get exposed? and in the meantime you don't get to do any other additional subject?

I can't wait for DS to go back to secondary school and do 14 subjects before reducing down to 9/10 for his GCSEs frankly

And yes, LAUSD is a shit show in a lot of ways but it's also the second largest school district in the country with not much money and a lot of children very low on the socio-economic scale to look after. Which is why is sucks that Santa Monica can give so much more to already very privileged families when you literally cross the road and you're in the next district

And don't even get me started on the parasitic nature of charter schools on inner city failing schools.....