Gdst or specialist maths 6th form - which to choose?

My daughter was at a GDST school and I had to get a private tutor for her. I finally moved her to another school.

HoneyMobster

I did not expect it to be that big reason why I asked. I know some girls move from all girls school to All boys school that take girls at Sixth-form. I am just surprised the difference was that large since STEM and maths provision for Girls being much better is one of their main selling points.

A few years ago, on one of the long-running SW London girls 11+ threads, someone did an analysis of STEM A level results from the girls schools. It’s CanadaUK on this thread at 2 March 2019 at 14.03, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/a3507503-As-the-Tiffin-results-day-looms-a-second-2019-SW-London-grammars-and-indies-thread#prettyPhoto

If someone wanted to update it to show boys schools as well, I think it would be interesting. Total numbers doing Further Maths would also be useful - a tiny class isn’t necessarily great.

It’s not just maths grade. It’s prep for university level maths, a huge jump. I’ll PM you, OP.

Cats The commute for my DD would be around 1.5 to 2 hours each way to Kings so we think although its the school we like best and were most impressed with she will likely go elsewhere. She went to one of the all girls grammars before in London and hated it being girls only, most of her friends are boys and the maths competitions are very male dominated. When she was at the all girls grammar she would come top of the year in maths, they were very strong in sciences but not especially strong in maths. She has been far more encouraged in maths by her mixed comp who also offer more maths qualifications though will vary by school. I would test the journey out though.

OP is talking about SW London GDST schools. Both PHS and WHS do have a problem in that many girls move for Sixth Firm to go co-ed. if DD had been humanities focussed we might well have let her stay at her GDST school but for a STEM orientated girl the offer at the Co-ed was much better. The co-ed is bigger but not that much bigger.

hockeygrass

You make a great point there hence why I asked Size and Academic selectivity of said schools be taken into consideration. For example Brighton college would have more pupils doing further maths than say Brighton and Hove High due to the fact it's bigger and more selective.

@Elij00 , GDST is U.K. wide so for example in Shrewsbury or Bath this may be the case but if you are talking about Wimbledon or Putney High V kings college Wimbledon it may be different.

HoneyMobster

Don't get wrong I am not arguing for or against anything as I don't know that many at GDST schools. I am simply going by what is being said by the Schools themselves and also posters on Mumsnet. They say they get better results and send more on average to STEM degrees than Coeds so surely their sciences and maths must be superior if this is indeed true?

With regards to the numbers taking further maths, could this be as a result of one of two things or even both? The first being that the GDST is simply smaller than the Coed and secondly the Coed being more academically selective at A Levels?

I'd disagree @Elij00 - at DD's GDST school the numbers taking Further Maths were too low in my option to make for a good experience, less than five. At her co-ed school the number is about 70.

The GDST do market themselves on STEM excellence but we moved DD to DS1's school because we saw the STEM offer there was superior.

CatsLikeBoxes

I am guessing your daughter will be doing two if not all three of Maths,Further Maths and Physics. Check the number of students that take them at the particular GDST you are looking at plus the number that gets Top results too. Not to compare them but to make sure there are enough High ability students taking them in case your daughter needs to be stretched.

@ HighRopes HoneyMobster

I am actually surprised that is the case in both of your experiences as one of the GDST's(and most all girls school) selling point is that they send more Girls per place to STEM degrees than Coed schools. This they say is because unlike co-eds where girls and boys are pigeon holed into girls and boys subjects respectively, none of that concept exists in their schools so I would have thought they'd all have many strong,serious and capable mathematicians if they send that many to STEM degrees every year.

@ AndNowNo

Absolutely they are people just naturally better at maths than others. Heck even amongst real Maths Geniuses there are differences in abilities not to talk of us mere mortals. I am happy your research has shown you many do come into their own later.

Its tricky... I am in the similar situation for the primary and secondary school for my DDs. How long you have to decide?

Several mathematicians jumped ship to go to our regional maths specialist school when my DD was doing A levels. Their results were no better than DD's and her contemporaries. And that was at a state sixth form. In fact there were some near failures from these apparent Maths geniuses. I was very glad we weren't tempted by the flattery of a place there!

Ignoring the academic pros and cons, would your daughter be happy in an "all girls" environment?

@HighRopes - I'd agree. DD was at one of the GDST schools and the maths teaching didn't cater for the serious mathematicians IMO. We moved her to a Co-Ed sixth form and there was a huge difference.

FWIW, I was chatting with someone who has boys and girls at top 10 ranked London schools. Her take was that maths provision in the boys schools was significantly better (more stretch, stronger cohort) than in their equivalent girls schools. I don’t know how true this is, but she’s in a pretty good position to judge. I do think that numbers doing Further Maths is a good indicator - a tiny class will be good in some ways but I think the real stretch often comes from a combination of really able peers plus excellent teaching, so you want enough peers to provide that.

@Elij00 thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.

I do think there is some genetic ability for sure though. I see it in my own family in that some of us that are much more predisposed to understand maths questions than others. For some it clicks instantly, for others it's much harder to see a solution or even get your head around what is being asked.

I'm wondering where the intersection is between genetic ability and teaching and perhaps the maturity of the brain/desire to really understand, rather than have it pushed at you passively. I'm sure it's not linear but it's interesting just to think about. Having googled the matter, it seems like people do come to maths late with much more success than at school. Curious indeed!

Sorry for hijacking your post OP. I hope you reach a good decision. Whatever you choose, they are both fantastic options and your DD is going to ever so well I'm certain. Good luck. Do let us know what you decide!

Won’t she have her young person’s oyster for the travel?

AndNowNo

Absolutely. I don't even think, I know a few people who were pretty average at Maths at 9/10//11 who then went on to do maths heavy STEM degrees at uni.

An example is a colleague at work. Flunked His 11plus largely due to how rubbish He was at maths at that age. Realised He was actually better at maths than He thought He was due in large parts to the encouragement He got form His Year 9 maths teacher. Did well at Alevels then went on to study Maths at King's College where He left with a Second Class Upper. He is fully qualified Chartered Accountant now.

Real Maths Genius are few and far in-between especially at that young age. Most just happened to be born to the right parents who encouraged,nutured and trained them. Heck even amongst some Child Maths Geniuses you'll find it's simply just not innate ability.

Heck my favourite Mathematician Terence Tao had two parents in STEM careers. His Dad was a Paediatrician whilst His Mum is a First Class Grad in mathematics and astrophysics so little surprise the Genuis was good at maths and the sciences(btw so were His siblings).

@Elij00 do you think late maths bloomers do exist? I'd love to hear more about that. Do you have experience of it?