CLSB, UCS, Habs or MTS

What would you like to know?

Please can someone advise on MTS experience

To be fair @Dido2010 you can’t know that much about schools as UCS has had girls in their 6th form since 2009

Hi @Confusedmom53 ! May I offer a slightly alternative analysis? I work in the education sector and we look at schools, including leading independent schools.

Clearly, all the schools you mention are very well known. Yet each has a distinctive current and historical character, something beyond statistics. All are good schools and all cater for the most academic boys. Your son will be fine at any of them. My family knows boys at all of them and they all like their school. Generally, travel considerations and family or community links prove decisive for many families when they decide between them.

Firstly, does UCS now admit girls into its Sixth Form? Something to consider.

Habs has generally been the most academic and is still widely considered to be so. City is the most distinctive because of its location; the commuting is reckoned to help with boys’ maturity, self-confidence and independence and exposure to the City itself and nearby, major, arts venues can be inspirational. I would choose between these two, especially as convenient, on-site sport is not such a big deal for you. You mention particular, current interests and these will be nurtured at each. But don’t be surprised if, aged 16 or 18, your son’s academic or extra-curricular focus and passion lie elsewhere. The best school will bring out something you and he may not even know is there at this stage. (This happened with our child at her school, both academically and musically.)

‘Too many South Asians’? For some years, the worldwide trend has been that Chinese, East Asians and South Asians target selective schools and are disproportionally represented in them. They only target the ‘best’ schools. (I know one Iranian lady who sent her daughter to one school partly because it had a lot of South Asians and she regards South Asian achievement highly!) We know that outer NW London has a significant South Asian community which cherishes academics and cricket and so Habs works for them, as does MTS to a great extent. Diversity? Most of these pupils are regular, fairly cosmopolitan, British kids who are comfortable with peers from all backgrounds. Ultimately, your friend is your friend and that’s what counts. Students are often better at multi-ethnic and multi-cultural friendships than their parents are. And university will only develop this further after high school, so it's not just about the 11 plus school. (My daughter’s school had a lot of Asians. Yet today her closest friends include Irish, Swedish, Jewish, and Euro-Afro-Caribbean individuals.) Perhaps the most powerful modern education is learning how to work in a team, how to behave in a group, how to get along with people and how to make friends with people who look different from us.

Which would I choose? I would be tempted by City. Congratulations to you and your son on gaining such offers and earning such a choice.

Hi
My son is sitting the 11+ UCS exam in Jan, does anyone have any advice regarding the papers and interviews? Thanks so much!

My understanding is that A Levels aren’t necessarily all that useful for ranking because some of the schools admit girls while others don’t - UCS and Westminster do but CLSB don’t. Supposedly the girls who join Westminster for sixth form are very high achieving indeed and give their A level results a real boost

Yes, that is absolutely correct. Admitting girls into a Sixth Form almost invariably has a beneficial effect on A level grades because as @CruCru says they will generally be very high achieving and therefore could easily account for a 1-2% uptick in A level results. [It would be interesting to strip out the girls' results from co-ed Sixth Forms and compare just boys' results, but I'm guessing schools might not make this data readily available!].

Merchant Taylors' School also don't admit girls, and the league table rankings don't really support the view – expressed earlier in this thread – that it is some way behind academically, so maybe there are some subjective opinions being presented here which the data doesn't back up…

This is an interesting thread. I should think the OP has probably decided by now.

Someone upthread posted some Sunday Times rankings of the schools. My understanding is that A Levels aren’t necessarily all that useful for ranking because some of the schools admit girls while others don’t - UCS and Westminster do but CLSB don’t. Supposedly the girls who join Westminster for sixth form are very high achieving indeed and give their A level results a real boost.

However, if you look at the GCSE results, there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference between the schools. Of the ranked list, CLSB was 36 and 91.4% got grades 7-9, whereas Kings College Wimbledon (ranked second) got 96.5%. KCW got the higher number but when you’re looking at such high achieving schools, there doesn’t seem as though there’s a massive difference between them. It’s probably safe to just pick the one your son will be happiest at (and hasn’t got an insane journey to).

MTS isn't multicultural? In what way?

I know all the schools. I would say Habs first then CLSB only because their sports facilities and the children there are so spread out, most so than any other school, UCS but serious reservations as many of the kids are absolutely off the scale wealthy in the way that there is more of a mix at Habs and CLSB and finally MTS purely because it's no longer very multi-cultural where are the others especially Habs and CLSB are.

I actually don't have children but I have relatives and friends who went (or whose children have been) to places like Habs, UCS and Whitgift - all of them have their individual strengths. I'm sure they have weaknesses too (subjectively speaking).

Looking for a school is a bit like going house-hunting: it's that "feeling" you get on open days when you know it's the right place for your child. Only you (and your child) will know it's right!

That’s so true. I think there has to be a balance between a multitude of things when looking for a top private school. Academics. Extracurriculars. Campus. Facilities. Preparation. Pastoral etc. People shouldn’t be too fixated on one particular aspect because they all really matter in the preparation and nurture of your child. If I may ask, what schools do your children go to?

Exactly - and as we all know, it can be incredibly subjective what makes a school "good"! That's why it's so important for any prospective parents to go and visit each of these places to get a feel for them for themselves: exam results and other people's opinions on forums like these have their place, but they will only get you so far in terms of researching schools for your children.

I know you weren’t trying to knock down other schools. Academics don’t necessarily make a school ‘good’, it’s only one aspect of what matters. I guess academics can’t be defined. It makes sense to define it by exam results or university destinations or successful alumni. But there are also other factors.

No you weren’t, you were making articulate points. We were simply debating and you put you your points across. Makes sense, I respect it.

Neither do I - and apologies if I came across as abrasive before. Certainly not my intention to start an argument.

I suppose it's interesting what one's definition of "academic" is, but if we're going by exam results, Habs stands up pretty well. Then again, that's not to knock UCS and the others mentioned above - there's a fine line between them. Not to mention that exam results are not the be-all and end-all.

Again, sorry if I was abrasive before.

I don’t want to start any arguments. I think Habs is a lovely school. It was one of the schools that we considered for my sons. My husband was very keen on the school.

The most recent exams data for the schools mentioned above were obviously 2020 and 2021 teacher-assessed grades which, rightly or wrongly, were not used in the most recent league tables by publications such as The Sunday Times. But even going by these teacher-assessed grades / results over the last two years, as published on the individual school websites, Habs Boys still emerges pretty strongly. It's true that in 2020, there was a higher proportion of 7-9 grades at UCS and Hampton, but not by much, and its A level results continued to be strong. In 2021, Habs reasserted its strength in GCSE.

• Habs Boys - 2020 A level: 98.2% A - B; 2020 GCSE: 94% 7 - 9
• UCS - 2020 A level: 93.81% A -B; Pre-U: 82.3% D1 - D3; GCSE 95.9% 7-9
• St Albans (boys) - 2020 A level: 94.7% A - B; 2020 GCSE 89.8% 7-9
• Hampton - 2020 A level (A - B figure undisclosed); 2020 GCSE 95% 7-9

• Habs Boys - 2021 A level: 98.6% A - B; 2021 GCSE: 99.5% 7-9
• UCS - 2021 A level: 97% A - B; Pre-U: 91% D1 - D3; GCSE: 95.9% 7-9
• St Albans (boys) - 2021 A level: 95% A - B; 2021 GCSE 91% 7-9
• Hampton - 2021 A level: 98.7% A - B; 2021 GCSE 97.83%

And before I get shouted down for talking up Habs Boys, I am basing this on the facts of the examination data available.

No what I was trying to say is the fact that these are some results, but regardless, I know kids who have gotten into Habs but not other schools. Does that determine the fact that Habs is easier to get into, not necessarily. I simply pointed out that I know kids who got into Habs but not other schools, I am not implying anything, I am just saying.

'These are some results, doesn't mean it happened.'

Do you think The Sunday Times made up this exam data, then? In no league table I've ever seen over the years has Habs Boys sat below UCS.

'Plus I think these are outdated because I am familiar with a few of these schools' results.'

Well, yes, The Sunday Times 2021 league table was based on averages of 2017 - 2019 public examination results, because - rightly - they, and many independent schools, considered it unfair to be judged by the 2020 and 2021 results because they were determined by teacher assessed grades, not by public examination.

Wait I said I know people whose kids got into some schools and didn’t get into others, that is true because I know it for a fact. These are some results, doesn’t mean it happened. Plus I think these are outdated because I am familiar with a few of these schools’ results.

Ah just realised it's an old thread

I can help with any MTS questions if that's helpful

Nope.

The Sunday Times top 150 independent schools 2021, based on averages of 2017 - 2019 public examination results (they decided not to use 2020 or 2021 pandemic teacher assessed grades in this data):

• Ranked 2: King's College Wimbledon - 96.9% A - B at A level; 96.5% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 6: St Pauls' Boys - 95.4% A - B at A level; 96.1% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 7: Westminster - 94.1% A - B at A level; 98.3% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 11: Eton - 94.6% A - B at A level; 95% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 16: Haberdashers' Aske's Boys - 95.3% A - B at A level; 91.4% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 22: Hampton - 91.7% A - B at A level; 92.7% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 32: University College School - 90.8% A - B at A level; 90.5% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 36: City of London Boys - 89.3% A - B at A level; 91.4% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 39: Highgate - 89.8% A - B at A level; 89.8% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 40: Merchant Taylors, Northwood - 90.6% A - B at A level; 88% 7 - 9 at GCSE
• Ranked 63: St Albans School - 87% A* - B at A level; 82.3% 7 - 9 at GCSE

Really? I know a multitude of kids who got into Habs, didn’t get into UCS, St Albans, Hampton etc. Isn’t UCS traditionally more academic, in terms of league tables? I think you’re right on CLSB though. What schools do your DS’ go to?