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Pushing North American Universities

106 replies

KillingEvenings · 24/01/2022 15:51

I'm mid way through another cycle of DC applying to state and independent selective secondary schools in London and have noticed on the tours they all bring up North American Universities as destinations for the leavers, in the same breath as their Oxbridge numbers.

Any thoughts as to what is behind this? Seems a very expensive option when we have so many great schools here. (They will mostly be 4+ year degrees and with tuition at £50K+ a year. Yikes! )

OP posts:
namethattunein1 · 26/01/2022 22:13

@KillingEvenings

I should clarify that I went to one of those elite US schools so am very familiar with them (or them of the early naughties) but not to resources available to international students. All the financial aid we saw in my day was a mixture of loans and discounted admission based on need. I don't think most of the families sending their DC to private schools in London would qualify for needs based financial aid so would be interested if you had any more info need-blind grants. I imagine they would be more akin to super selective scholarships and highly competitive, but maybe I'm wrong and it's just about knowing what forms to complete.

I still attest though that the UK has great schools. It's misleading to say most of the top 10 schools are in the US but not mention 3 or 4 (depending on who's ranking you look at) are in the UK which, considering the relative sizes of the two countries shows the UK punching well above it's weight.

You'd be surprised how many families sending their kids to selective schools are on "modest" salaries of say 100K and making sacrifices to pay. Also many schools in London do help these families, some of them offer bursaries even for families with own home (with a mortgage) and earning a joint salary of say 90K. Keep in mind the average salary in London SIGNIFICANTLY lower than 100K, for the UK its even lower, think half and then some. So yes, within Westminster or UCS or Kings etc, there are families with millions, there are many with modest incomes that still dwarf most in this country

I love my country, but it's simply a fact the US schools are jaw dropping compared to many a good university here in the UK, for resources, research, teaching, the works. And compared to ours, they offer financial help to students. The UK has history on its side that distorts our importance. We've had a brain drain to the US universities since the 50's. And it looks like not ending anytime soon.

Harvard offer help even for low six figure income families (GBP) and its open to UK students, so those "modest" families sending their kids to private school aren't out of the running is my point.

And to be blunt, if the cut off is around 200K, that seems fair if it ensures families on modest incomes aren't held back .

I understand what you're saying, why bother going to Harvard when Oxford and Cambridge is only up the road, but for me to send my son or daughter to one of the Oxbridge colleges, on a modest salary I would pay fees of 9K a year, and help them with ALL living costs, the only 'help' I will receive is a loan from the government.

The University themselves provide nothing, except hardship funds for students that are in real difficulty ( but not for fees, for living costs) and of course there are prizes and scholarships but nothing like the level of help from places like Harvard.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/fees-and-funding/oxford-support

college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works

knitnerd90 · 26/01/2022 22:04

Ivies have changed in the past 20 years. If you get in, the aid packages have improved and several Ivies have gotten rid of student loans. American student loans are provided on less favourable terms than English ones, which is an issue. Federal loans are currently 3.73% (I had to Google this!)

Not being a US citizen or permanent resident means you don't qualify for certain types of aid, also, and I don't think most universities will make up that difference (except sometimes for undocumented immigrants). Add to that the income for most people who send their kids to top tier independent schools, and I would think most of them would not get a great deal of assistance. However there may be other funding opportunities eg sport.

that said, Canada can be a much less expensive option than the US.

KillingEvenings · 26/01/2022 20:57

I should clarify that I went to one of those elite US schools so am very familiar with them (or them of the early naughties) but not to resources available to international students. All the financial aid we saw in my day was a mixture of loans and discounted admission based on need. I don't think most of the families sending their DC to private schools in London would qualify for needs based financial aid so would be interested if you had any more info need-blind grants. I imagine they would be more akin to super selective scholarships and highly competitive, but maybe I'm wrong and it's just about knowing what forms to complete.

I still attest though that the UK has great schools. It's misleading to say most of the top 10 schools are in the US but not mention 3 or 4 (depending on who's ranking you look at) are in the UK which, considering the relative sizes of the two countries shows the UK punching well above it's weight.

OP posts:
namethattunein1 · 26/01/2022 17:45

@KillingEvenings

I'm mid way through another cycle of DC applying to state and independent selective secondary schools in London and have noticed on the tours they all bring up North American Universities as destinations for the leavers, in the same breath as their Oxbridge numbers.

Any thoughts as to what is behind this? Seems a very expensive option when we have so many great schools here. (They will mostly be 4+ year degrees and with tuition at £50K+ a year. Yikes! )

Firstly most of the top 10 universities in the world are in the US.

Secondly the ivy league is in a different ....er league in providing no-repayable aid and the like compared to our UK system of student loans.

Financial aid is given in the form of grants, not loans, so you will not be required to pay them back. Even a family on low six figures can get a huge amount of help. Of course I'm only talking about the elite US schools. It's actually cheaper for a family on say 100K to send their DC to Harvard than Oxford.

knitnerd90 · 24/01/2022 16:12

From the schools' perspective it sounds a bit like bragging as I assume they are pointing out very selective universities in the US.

From the students' perspective, the degree structure is different in North America (the US especially, I think Canada is a bit different) and this can be a good choice for some students. I don't know that I would say it's worth International student private prices, but I do understand the appeal (my oldest is in 11th grade in the USA and looking at universities).

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