Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Anybody know how large the cohort of native speakers is for A level French?

64 replies

Naem · 23/12/2021 20:24

I have been reading on mumsnet that a very large number of those who do MFL for A level are native speakers who then tend to take the top grades.

Does anybody have access to any statistics as to the numbers - specifically for French, which is what interests my DD.

My DD enjoys French the most of all of her GCSE subjects, and wants to take it for A level, but she is not a native speaker - she learnt what she knows in school. Barely been to France (I have been wanting to take her, but pandemics rather make it difficult). I think we took her once when she was about four years old, and once when she was about 12 for holidays.

Guess I want to understand how much of a risky choice this really is (although her heart is set on it).

OP posts:
savagebaggagemaster · 23/12/2021 23:39

@TheAntiGardener

If your daughter wants to do it she should go for it. It’s a solid academic qualification which would get her to a good level in the language, so quite apart from top grades it’s valuable.

No idea what language A’ levels are like now, but what held me back from getting a better grade @ 20 years ago wasn’t not being a native speaker, but not being confident in speaking and being lazy in learning enough vocabulary.

Like a previous poster, I do find native speakers taking a course in French, Spanish or whatever as a foreign language a bit of a joke. Where’s the achievement?

My experience of teaching native speakers both GCSE and A level MFL is that they don't always do as well as non-natives. This is because they sometimes struggle with their spelling and grammar in their native tongue. At A level they need to take an interest in the topics studied and literature. Sometimes native speakers don't put enough effort into finding out about the subject areas and try to wing it in the speaking test. This rarely works! I had native speakers on my degree and one in particular was awful; he never turned up for lectures and tutorials and when he did he was told off by the tutor for lack of effort - he was so arrogant! He sounded amazing but never went into any depth.
pinkmink · 23/12/2021 23:39

Also - at uni it’s really 70% literature / culture with the language only being a small part.

So native speakers are lazy, but it’s not quite a free pass for them.

pinkmink · 23/12/2021 23:37

Please encourage her to do it, it’s a fantastic subject.

If you send her on a residential language course for a week or two she will have a fantastic time and get great grades. Language schools have a youth hostel atmosphere.

TheAntiGardener · 23/12/2021 23:29

If your daughter wants to do it she should go for it. It’s a solid academic qualification which would get her to a good level in the language, so quite apart from top grades it’s valuable.

No idea what language A’ levels are like now, but what held me back from getting a better grade @ 20 years ago wasn’t not being a native speaker, but not being confident in speaking and being lazy in learning enough vocabulary.

Like a previous poster, I do find native speakers taking a course in French, Spanish or whatever as a foreign language a bit of a joke. Where’s the achievement?

Igneo · 23/12/2021 23:21

do Universities notice whether it’s a native speaker who has taken the A Level, and adjust offers accordingly?

Whilst achievement and standards should be recognised, wouldn’t it be better if there were separate syllabuses for native speakers?

It strikes me that recent large decline in uptake of MFL probably means the number of native speakers taking the exams is higher than in previous cohorts.

JurgensCakeBabyJesus · 23/12/2021 23:19

Oh and I did German A, level neither of my parents speak any other languages and I hadn't even been to Germany until my second A level year, I got an A which was the highest grade at the time

Original poster
Naem · 23/12/2021 23:18

@Cornucopia55 very interesting. Lots of issues with the data but it would seem that while the effect is real, it is not a huge cohort of native speakers - at least giving non-native speakers a chance. And the native speaker cohort is a fair bit lower for French than for German or Spanish.

OP posts:
JurgensCakeBabyJesus · 23/12/2021 23:17

I lived with a girl at uni who was born in the UK but from the age of two lived in Belgium and was fluent in French, Flemish and English, she came back to the UK and did a French degree, I didn't really get it. She didn't even get a first

user1471519931 · 23/12/2021 23:12

I'm from a small rural town, had some school trips abroad and decided to study French and German at uni. First couple of years were hard, but then my third year was spent abroad and I soaked it all in like a sponge and by the time I went back to uni to finish my degree I was truly nailing it. When joining the world of work being fluent in two languages but a native English speaker has been an absolute superpower and I earn mega bucks now...

I silently laugh when I hear all the noise about getting more women and girls into STEM subjects...ok but what about getting more Brits in general into foreign languages...

Yes there were some French people and some dual citizens or kids who went every year skiing and Provence-ing etc but you have to befriend and learn from them...easier said than done at that age, I know...

Learning MFL trains your brain to listen and process language in such a rigorous way - it has paid off dividends in my case and even though it was tough going in the beginning I would still say "go for it"...there are some brilliant tik tokers who can teach you how to speak street French...massive advantage over our generation in the 90s...

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow · 23/12/2021 23:00

My son did a level French. None of us speak French , he's only been to france a few times etc
He got an A and is now studying French and Spanish at uni.

Onthetrain75 · 23/12/2021 22:57

Can’t help with numbers. Can tell you that I did A level French and got a grade A though admittedly was a long time ago. I had grade A at GCSE, then during A levels spent time abroad on an exchange programme. I also worked on a cross channel ferry in the holidays where staff were both French and English. It’s definitely achievable if your DD is keen and prepared to work. I went on to study at uni in France and I now work for a French bank. No one in my family spoke a word of any language other than English.

lanthanum · 23/12/2021 22:49

There are far more top grades in languages than other subjects, so that it isn't a case of all the top grades being taken by the bilingual kids.

DD is also planning on taking French with hardly any time in France. She had a day trip to France in year 7 (when she spoke two words of French) and a rather more useful 3 day trip squeezed between Storm Ciara and Storm Dennis in Feb 2020 - she was lucky to get that one! Hopefully we might manage to spend some time there before she actually takes the A-level!

Are her school positive about her doing it? We're trusting the teacher's recommendation that she's up to it.

Cornucopia55 · 23/12/2021 20:39

Sorry, link went wrong! Government report on native speakers in A level languages

Cornucopia55 · 23/12/2021 20:37

There's a [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/610050/Native_speakers_in_A_level_modern_foreign_languages.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjhn6bo4vr0AhUMYcAKHZKVD7QQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W5zhk6MKicF_D4Wa4qurE government report on native speakers in A-level languages]] here, from 2017. Hope it helps.

Swipe left for the next trending thread