English Literature - Working at Grade 1 in year 10 - is this ok?

Lougle · 2021-12-17T13:22:44+00:00

DD2 had her year 10 mocks in November. Her report came out last week. She's working at level 1 for English Literature (level 3 for English Language). Nobody has told me (and the teacher is off sick so no email reply) whether this is ok because she'll improve over time and pass, or if it's worrying. At this stage, all I care about is her getting a 4, so I suppose my question is whether a typical student would improve 3 grades by GCSE exam time from now?

MrsHamlet · 04/11/2022 21:53

That's great news @Lougle
It sounds like things are looking up for her already :)

CornedBeef451 · 04/11/2022 21:43

I would be very worried about that. You really need to talk to the school about what interventions they can provide and what you can do at home to help.

Original poster

Lougle · 04/11/2022 21:34

@MrsHamlet you were so helpful on this thread. DD2 was eventually offered an independent specialist school (3 in her class) and the LA have agreed to fund an extra year, so she's redoing year 10 now. She went to the theatre with her new school to watch 'An Inspector Calls' yesterday.

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Original poster

Lougle · 14/05/2022 10:34

DD2 didn't qualify for extra time using form 8 because she only tested low in one main area. I've since learned that they shouldn't have been using form 8.

She has only been doing food tech and photography since February half term and she hasn't even done that since Easter.

I'm hoping the Education Inclusion Centre will sort things out for her in the short term, then the LA will have to decide who can meet her needs with the EHCP in June.

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TeenPlusCat · 14/05/2022 07:51

You don't need 5xgrade 4 to continue in education.
My DD got 4 x grade 3 (missed all y11) and in theory could have done a Level 2 course but actually is doing a level 1.
We prioritised maths & English (if DD hadn't been ill I think she would have passed them) but in some ways they could be considered less important as you can retake them in college.
English Language need less fact learning. DD has an electronic reader for EEng Lang which helps with her processing difficulties As well as extra time (for processing & writing issues) and rest breaks (for MH issues).

LittleOwl153 · 13/05/2022 22:57

That phonological memory is on my dd's dyslexia assessment. I'd not be surprised if there is not more to this than asd...

I'm sure school have talked to you about this but if she has photography, food tech, PE is that a gcse or just a generic class? Maths and English lang could she ditch the science and English lit? Or just take her strongest single science? I'm thinking can she get 5 GCSEs grade 4 - which will give her a fighting chance to continue in education. Of that's not going to happen I think I would pull her out this year. Use the time to get all her issues properly assessed and get her into college next year to repeat yr11 with everything in place.

The working memory issues should also give her the extra time in exams that I can see she was previously refused.

This stuff is shit. I'm so sorry your dd is going through it all now at this point. I'm going through similar with dd though thankfully she's only yr8 and we can afford to get the assessments done - if we hadn't I know she'd still be bobbing along not having a clue what she was supposed to write! Really feel for this years cohort to as the last 2 years of schooling has largely been a write off for any child who was even vaguely struggling.

MrsHamlet · 13/05/2022 22:29

I was only thinking about your daughter the other day. I hope they get her the support she needs.

Original poster

Lougle · 13/05/2022 21:51

I just thought I'd update this thread to say that DD2 has really struggled over the last 3 months. I submitted an EHCP Needs Assessment request and that was accepted by the LA. They have to decide whether to issue an EHCP by early June.

DD2 hasn't attended school at all since Easter, bar a couple of chats with the teacher who has built a relationship with her. We have a meeting at the local Education Inclusion Centre next week.

The EP has written a very supportive report and has stated that DD2 needs 1:1 or small groups less than 4 for many of her provisions.

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Original poster

Lougle · 10/02/2022 21:49

It's so nice to hear that teachers go the extra mile for their students. To be fair, the Asst Head is being really good. She's taken time to get to know DD2 and has had her sat in her office all day at times because that's all DD2 could cope with.

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MrsHamlet · 10/02/2022 21:22

I have a student on a very reduced timetable. On the days they can't make it to the classroom, I pop along and talk to them either about the work or just for a chat so they know I've not forgotten them.
If someone asked me to do that, I'd definitely do that.

Imitatingdory · 10/02/2022 21:12

I am sorry to hear DD2 is struggling so much. It makes school life so much harder for DC when they are told one thing and others renege of the arrangements, it breaks all trust. Could DD have a short 1:1 session with the English teacher? Probably not feasible as a long term solution but as a one off or a couple of sessions may get DD2 to a place where she feels able to try the English lessons. Or as an initial step would she listen to the introduction from outside the classroom one day?

A Form 8 doesn’t need to be completed for DD because she has ASD. It is worrying the school do not know this, especially on top of not raising the results of the assessment with you.

Original poster

Lougle · 10/02/2022 19:29

Just thought I'd update this thread as you've all been so helpful.

DD2 hasn't done a full day in normal lessons since Christmas. She completely fell apart over the last few days of the holidays and couldn't face school, so they let her go to R&R (their SEN base) on the first day.

We had a meeting with the Asst. Head the next day and she decided that DD2 could use R&R for the rest of the week. We put lots of things in place and she started to attend some lessons but unfortunately, a breakdown in communication meant that some staff contradicted the Asst. Head's agreement with DD2, which meant that her safety net was taken away.

We've spent time building her back up, so she had been going to Photography, Food Tech and PE in person, geography as a live lesson, maths as a live lesson, and not attending science or English.

Now we've managed to get her to 30 minutes of Maths and Science (½ lessons). English is still off the timetable right now until they figure out what to do about it.

It does mean that she's missed a half-term of English lessons.

Today I got paperwork that I requested from school and it shows that she was assessed for the form 8 and that revealed that her phonological memory (working memory) is on the 1st percentile. It seems nobody thought to tell me and they've just added a line to her SEN plan that says that she has 'a lower working memory'.

I'm writing my EHCP needs assessment request.

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Imitatingdory · 30/12/2021 10:02

The document also states a Form 8 is not necessary in this situation, therefore how can the SENCO be confident rest breaks instead of extra time is the right access arrangement when they have reached that decision by incorrectly assessing DD using the criteria for Form 8. Some schools incorrectly tell parents all pupils need to qualify under Form 8. It is possible to have rest breaks and extra time.

Given the chemistry mock this sounds like a wider difficulty than ‘just’ English.

MrsHamlet · 30/12/2021 09:55

The skills are exactly the same (as is the mark scheme) for the two novels. The difference is that J&H is a passage linked to text question and there's only one, not a choice.

Original poster

Lougle · 30/12/2021 09:44

I'm not being difficult, but that document clearly says:

"Supervised rest breaks must always be considered before making a request for extra time, since they may be more appropriate for candidates with a medical condition, a physical disability or a psychological condition. (See Chapter 5, section 5.1 for more detail.) The SENCo must have considered and thoroughly exhausted the option of supervised rest breaks before making an application for 25% extra time. The SENCo considers 25% extra time, and not supervised rest breaks, to be an appropriate access arrangement/reasonable adjustment."

They've given DD2 supervised rest breaks. I'm not sure how extra time would help her because she gets stressed and simply gives up. She finished her 1 hour chemistry exam in 18 minutes because she answered what she could and the rest seemed like nonsense to her.

At least with rest breaks, she can take as many as she needs. She can turn over the paper, calm down, have a think and start again.

I'll discuss it at the meeting but what she needs is to understand what she's doing.

I know there is a huge curriculum to cover, but she's finished The Lord of the Files, has no idea how to answer questions about it, and they're moving on to Jekyll and Hyde in January. She's just going to slip further and further behind if they don't realise that she isn't getting it.

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AuntyFungal · 30/12/2021 09:16

@Imitatingdory

Are you sure DD doesn’t qualify for extra time? As she has ASD a Form 8 is not needed and should not be used. Here are the guidelines - 5.2.3 is the important part.

Separate invigilation and a laptop may help too.

@Lougle

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/398815/SEND_Code_of_Practice_January_2015.pdf

This is a statutory document. Schools must (if relevant) do what’s applicable for the child. If not, then they must detail why not. Both answers are important.
Lack of £ is not a defence for not actioning / applying for learning support.

I feel like a broken record. It’s fucking shocking, the lack of info parents are given.

Did DD have a formal assessment / diagnosis?

If so, DD is covered by the Equal Act ‘10 & the Gov’t SEND Code of Practice. What does this mean? I) You should have been given a copy of the report. II) There should be a section in the report detailing what difficulties DD’s diagnosis causes and initial advice from the clinician to help with learning, social & behavioural issues. School should be using this to form learning plans for DD.

No formal diagnosis?

You have a paper trail from 3 primary schools, detailing learning difficulties. The SEND Code covers this. If there is working evidence of difficulties, teachers are required to put help into place before any formal diagnosis. The difficulty is lack of SEND training of teachers (no offence intended), especially where ASD, ADD, ADHD type difficulties present. If you aren’t trained, how do you spot the difficulties?

Does DD have an IEP (Individual Educational Plan)?

Once diagnosed or teachers recognise difficulties, DD should have had one. This is a statutory requirement. Doesn’t have to be called an IEP. Should detail the difficulties and what teachers will do in class etc… to help. Should also detail what hasn’t worked. This is not a fixed document. Should be reviewed termly by you and SENCO.

Exam accoms.

School should have been using the IEP to form daily working strategies for DD with an eye to exams. School need to evidence normal working practice for DD. The school should know sect. 8 would not be relevant to DD. That would be Specific Learning Difficulties ie dyslexia.

Depending on answers for 1-4 would influence my questions to school.
If I was only now hearing that my DS was only hitting 1s, I’d be wanting answers.

Is there a ASD support group local to you.
Is there someone you can take to the school meeting? Take notes.

MsTSwift · 30/12/2021 08:16

In year 10 Dd and lots of others did very badly at chemistry. Lots of us contacted the school who laid on extra lessons we also got a shit hot specialised tutor as did lots of others. Year 10 her grade was 3 she just got a 6 in her year 11 mocks

MrsHamlet · 30/12/2021 00:12

@CornishGem1975

I think if my Year 10 had a Grade 1 in anything I would be having serious words with the school. That's not a reflection on your child by the way, but I'd be slightly cross that this hadn't been picked up previously. English Literature is not a new subject to them in Year 10 they will have been learning aspects of it for the three years previous.

Lots of students do badly the first time round - it's what's done to follow that up which is important. Gcse lit assessments are very prescriptive in their mark scheme. Mess up your handling of the assessment criteria and it can have a hugely negative effect.

MrsTophamHat · 29/12/2021 19:18

@CornishGem1975

I think if my Year 10 had a Grade 1 in anything I would be having serious words with the school. That's not a reflection on your child by the way, but I'd be slightly cross that this hadn't been picked up previously. English Literature is not a new subject to them in Year 10 they will have been learning aspects of it for the three years previous.

Well it would depend on the child as well of course.

If they haven't applied what they have been taught to cover all three assessment objectives in Lit then they will struggle. You can know a book inside out but the exam is not a knowledge quiz. If you don't demonstrate the objectives the teacher cannot give the marks.

MsTSwift · 29/12/2021 18:27

I would get a decent tutor and fast

CornishGem1975 · 29/12/2021 18:24

I think if my Year 10 had a Grade 1 in anything I would be having serious words with the school. That's not a reflection on your child by the way, but I'd be slightly cross that this hadn't been picked up previously. English Literature is not a new subject to them in Year 10 they will have been learning aspects of it for the three years previous.

AnInspectorBores · 29/12/2021 18:19

@Diditreallylookawful it didn't seem sanctimonious at all! Don't worry !

The CGP guides are indeed very good, as are Mr Bruff / Mr Salles on YouTube. I just wish that all parents were are dedicated as you to helping their DC.

Diditreallylookawful · 29/12/2021 16:47

My post came across as sanctimonious, which I absolutely didn't intend. What I meant was that you're obviously incredibly clued up as to how your child works and remembers things - I found that classroom teaching simply didn't work for Eng Lit so I had to find another way. We've managed to claw back two grades doing it our way (rather than the school's). I hope you find a method that works for you.

Diditreallylookawful · 29/12/2021 15:56

My DD is doing Jekyll and Hyde (now Y11), amongst others. I've read every single book/play she is studying, written notes in a way that make sense to my child, highlighted quotes, themes, language, metaphors/similes (thank you Google) etc etc. It's taken hours and hours, but at least I can now sit with them and we can talk about things together and come up with plans. CGP guides are wonderful, as are post-it notes!

AnInspectorBores · 29/12/2021 12:33

The equivalence I mention is in terms of writing, rather than the reading element; the content and language alone of the reading extract adds the challenge that takes the students beyond the requirements for Y3

Wow @ElizabethinherGermanGarden that's quite a qualification to make after your earlier assertion! You had me worried for a while - I'm an experienced English teacher of many years and there was no way I'd expect a Y3 child to get a GCSE grade 1 on the full paper. Many of my Y7s are high grade 1 / low grade 2 (again, based on the full paper), but that's fine as they are four and a half years away from GCSE.