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Original poster

Westminster Vs Kings - urgent advice appreciated !

34 replies

smartpoppy · 07/12/2021 14:31

Hello All,

My DD has received an offer for KCS sixth form and we need to accept by tomorrow 5 pm. Tomorrow is also when the Westminster results are expected. Assuming she gets an offer from Westminster and assuming that fees aren't really a consideration (they are! but lets go with the assumption that we should be able to manage) any advice on which would be a better choice? I know its important to match the school to DDs personality and see if the school fits so here are some data points:

She is already at a very good independent secondary currently but wants to move since she thinks it's not academic enough. Her gut feeling is that Kings is a little more academic than her previous school but is not 'that much of an upgrade'. She has her heart set on Engineering/Pure Maths/STEM at Oxbridge and wants to maximise her chances. Super bright (top of her class; predicted 9s at GCSEs in her subjects), super competitive but not sporty or the drama type at all. We think in this respect Westminster probably fits the bill better. But, on the other hand a 45 min commute daily (she's not boarding) as opposed to 10 mins by bus to KCS, Saturday school and a few concerning reports on 'Everyone's invited' has left her (and us) a bit confused. Another point worth mentioning is that she will have 3-4 of her current friends joining KCS (none of them made it to the interview stage at Westminster) so we think it might be easier for her to settle down in a new environment. She says it should not be a factor since she is making a 'fresh start' anyway and is confident she will make new friends wherever she goes. According to her, whether one school (over the other) will help her achieve her full academic potential should be the only consideration.

So as you can see, there are frantic debates going on at home. We will be happy with whatever she chooses but was wondering if anyone who faced similar issues or has a DS/DD at either school would be able give us their honest opinion to help us reach a decision.

Many thanks in advance.

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Dontthinktohard · 18/09/2024 16:05

That is about a school in Wales

Utility · 11/12/2021 11:50

www.ft.com/content/bbb7fe58-0908-4f8e-bb1a-081a42a045b7
A pertinent article.

SSOYS · 10/12/2021 14:06

I don't agree with the point about Oxbridge at all. Westminster regularly gets 70+ pupils into Oxbridge. It does this by selecting very bright and motivated pupils and then providing really excellent education and focused work on university applications and interviews- it offers much more in this regard than a state school could or should. Universities are aware of this and try to take it into account to some extent in interviewing but that fact is that going to this sort of school is still a massive advantage, which you can see reflected in the results.

If parents are disgruntled that their kid didn't get in and are complaining and blaming the school, they should remind themselves that there are far more kids clever enough to go to Oxbridge than there are places, that paying fees doesn't guarantee you a place and perhaps another kid did better on the day. And I say that as an OW who went to Oxford.

njshore · 10/12/2021 12:43

That's true. In this state school biased environment, sometimes it's better to be a BIG FISH in a small pond.

jeanne16 · 09/12/2021 11:36

Just on a cautionary note. If Oxbridge is your goal, then you need to know that is is becoming ever harder to be accepted there from the big name independent schools. My DD went to Cambridge from Westminster so I have no axe to grind. However there were lots of very unhappy parents of very bright pupils who didn’t get offers and I heard a lot of complaining and blaming the school. I believe last year KCS parents were very unhappy about university offers too.

GU24Mum · 09/12/2021 08:32

Well done to your daughter and good luck with the decision. What stood out for me in your posts is that while you are possibly wary of choosing W, it sounds as though that's where your daughter really wants to go.

njshore · 08/12/2021 23:35

Congrats to your daughter on her achievement. My daughter, who is now at Cambridge, said Westminster prepared her well for university.

njshore · 08/12/2021 23:33

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-oxbridge-files-which-schools-get-the-most-pupils-in

The Oxbridge Files. Which schools get the most pupils in?

Oxford and Cambridge have released figures showing how many offers they gave to pupils from schools in the 2020 UCAS application cycle. We have combined the figures in this table. It shows how well state grammars and sixth-form colleges compete with independent schools. Over the years, both universities have roughly doubled the proportion of pupils from state schools: 67 per cent, up from 52 per cent in 2000. Of the 80 schools, 35 are independent, 22 grammar, 15 sixth-form colleges, seven comprehensives or academies, and one is a further education college. (Schools are ranked by offers received, then by offer-to-application ratio. If schools received fewer than three offers from one university, this number has been discounted due to UCAS’s disclosure control.)

Original poster
smartpoppy · 08/12/2021 22:21

@WorkingItOutAsIGo thank you.

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WorkingItOutAsIGo · 08/12/2021 22:08

Congratulations to her!

Original poster
smartpoppy · 08/12/2021 16:19

Thank you to all those who contributed. Just as an update DD has been offered a place at Westminster and is leaning towards accepting it. She is a bit daunted about how different everything will be (new environment (co-ed), new teaching style (more uni type), big fish small pond syndrome etc. But hopefully things will work out. Fingers crossed.

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WorkingItOutAsIGo · 08/12/2021 14:59

I think the probably answer is the schools target different things. If you want to top the league tables you do one thing and if you want to maximise oxbridge you do another.

So for example one of my DC was allowed to take an A level he was forecast a C in at his school which more usually delivers A* and A grades, as they weren’t worried about league tables, and he really wanted to do it regardless of the result.

BendingSpoons · 08/12/2021 14:34

PPs have mentioned:

  • W being more university style in their learning
  • W providing a whole education, not just an exam factory

I wonder if some of that is what comes across in interviews and helps with the high success rate for Oxbridge.

Original poster
smartpoppy · 08/12/2021 13:57

Thanks @11Plus2022. I think this is a key question. Exam results seem to be better at Kings (league tables etc) but levers destinations are better at Westminster by far (percentage of oxbridge and international acceptances). This is quite an anomaly. Could Westminster be preparing their cohorts better in terms of what else Oxbridge and others are looking for? Work experience, special projects, personal statements etc. I have no idea. Would love to hear from others who can perhaps offer some explanation.

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Afreshstart2021 · 08/12/2021 13:26

Trust me, KCS much worse than W in terms of behaviour.

11Plus2022 · 08/12/2021 12:09

I’ve also been trying to understand the difference between the Times rankings and Oxbridge success of various schools. Oxford and Cambridge both publish information by school about how many people apply, and how many of these get offers. The big difference between Westminster and KCS seems to be that a much higher proportion of Westminster students who apply actually get offers than is the case for KCS. As I don’t currently have DC at either, I can’t really comment on why that is.

dreadingthetime · 08/12/2021 11:17

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59552169

This news will definitely prove that such appalling school culture and behaviour towards girls is rife every where in every school. Media only cherry picks those ones which will draw maximum public attention and create better sensation.

SSOYS · 08/12/2021 10:54

I’m an OW and would send my daughter there like a shot- it’s a great school.

Re Everyone’s Invited- my DC are at another of the schools that was mentioned. I don’t believe that the schools featured are worse than any other school (unless you go single sex)- this sort of behaviour is appallingly common in all mixed schools. I found the focus on “big name” schools pretty disappointing, as if the well-being of privately educated girls matters more than those in the state sector. So I certainly wouldn’t let it put me off and if anything would expect a featured school to be upping its game and so possibly a better bet than most.

Augusta123 · 08/12/2021 10:46

Anyone else waiting for the Westminster 6th form admissions results today? Our son is waiting to hear. Silence so far.

Needacoat · 08/12/2021 10:29

I think the Times table is compiled using combined 2017-2019 data.

dadwithbitofaclue · 08/12/2021 10:18

@Jumpalicious

Ref academic comparisons: Acc to the league table just published in the times, KCS is the second school in the entire Uk (st Paul’s girls is the first). KCS is the top boys’ school, and top co-Ed school in the uk. For the fourth year running.

Westminster no 7. in the uk.(Eton is no 11, St. Paul’s boys no 6).

There’s probably not much in it at this high level. Westminster is more “brand name” famous than KCS I think. But are you sure KCS is only “a little more academic” than her current school? Given its top of top ranking in entire uk. If so, I assume she’s at some other top 10 school, so maybe she’s best of staying at her current school?

Skewed by no exams taken this year?
WorkingItOutAsIGo · 08/12/2021 08:34

Writing as a parents whose children got into W but didn’t go there as it wasn’t the right school for them personally, I would definitely say pick W on the basis of your description of your daughter. It absolutely is highly academic and she will be more stretched there than anywhere else, and it is a very special place and it sounds like she would appreciate the history and its uniqueness. It doesn’t mean she will enjoy every day but I think she would be happier to have gone there and had a few challenging days, then go to KCS and always wish maybe she had chosen W.

But of course, both options are fantastic!

Afreshstart2021 · 08/12/2021 08:33

They get used to Saturday school.

Afreshstart2021 · 08/12/2021 08:33

I’m a teacher and know these schools well. I would go for Westminster without a second thought. Special school and I’m afraid the news about KCS having a nasty sexist culture amongst the boys is, in my experience, true.

Original poster
smartpoppy · 08/12/2021 08:29

Thank you @Jumpalicious. That's quite useful as academic comparisons go. With these results, any idea why W consistently has better oxbridge success than KCS? Could it be that a lot less pupils are applying to Oxbridge from KCS, or is it something else that I might be missing?

DD is in a top 15 school currently but feels she is not stretched at all. Thinks both KCS and W would stretch her but W would probably be more academic. I think the oxbridge admission percentages may have influenced her opinion.

Thanks

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