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Original poster

My son has been permanently excluded

158 replies

Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 09:39

Name changed because details are extremely outing.

If there are any experts on here, or if anyone could offer any adice I'd be extremely grateful.

Very briefly. My son used a nicotine pouch in school (he's year 10), they are a legal but age restricted smoking cessation product, in the same way that vapes are. Having legal age restricted products are punishable by fixed exclusion, usually a couple of days.

However, the kid told him it was a banned product called Snus, which is basically chewing tobacco in a pouch.

He has been kicked out, not because it was snus, but because he believed it was snus. All evidence clearly shows it was nicotene pouches.

W.T.A.F???? He's been kicked out because he thought something was something else? How is this even legal?

The Governors upheld the exclusion, even though I coherently fought against the decision with plenty of well researched information.

He's currently at a PRU, I need him out ASAP, it's a hell hole.

I need the permanent exclusion overturned so I can get him into our local catchment school, not an easy move currently as the school can refuse him, or it will be a managed move with all the problems that brings.

The next step is an independant review panel.

A bit of background, my son's behaviour has been challenging at times, due to ADHD, nothing major though, all low level, but it's fair to say he can be a pain. I truly believe that this is the real reason behind the exclusion. He presented them with an opportunity and they leapt on it. I have made arguments regarding his SEN, to no avail.

Please help!

OP posts:
Grida · 04/12/2021 11:01

Don’t minimise the regular low/medium level bad behaviour as this is what really needs to be dealt with in order for him to be able to cope in school and at work. You are right that it is probably the real reason behind his exclusion and something that he needs help with going forward. Is he on medication for his adhd?

PAFMO · 04/12/2021 10:51

@Expelled123

Viviennemary, he's not a constant trouble maker, without going into to much detail, most incidents are stage one bar one (when he ran into the head, interestingly), minor incidents.
With the best will in the world, your son wasn't permanently excluded because there was a one off incident. You're his mum and you see stuff as "low level". It takes a heck of a lot of (not) low level disruption and bad behaviour to be permanently excluded. And the school have presumably been in regular contact with you about your son's. You've had good advice on how to move forward. No point looking at other students, or even focussing on the fact about the whatever it was substance. It would simply have been the latest in a long series of incidents. You'll have had meetings with the school, systems put in place over the years etc. You knew this was a possibility if his behaviour continued. Go forward. Work on him, and with him. Because Year 10 is not year 7. Year 10 is where if these things don't get sorted, they never will (in the school system) I am a manager for a UK summer school, and one of our most trusted and well liked junior staff is in a PRU. She's turned things round because she studies there.
maddy68 · 04/12/2021 10:47

He's in a Pru so his behaviour is an ongoing issue. This sounds like the last straw. Perm ex is actually very difficult to do so there will have been many many other incidents prior to this.

You now need to have a plan to move forward.

CherieBabySpliffUp · 04/12/2021 10:47

He had an age restricted item in school (which he was too young to have?), surely that was enough for him to be excluded anyway.
Around 5 year 11 pupils from a local school were excluded because they admitted to vaping in the school toilets so yes the school would exclude the other 9 pupils in your son's case.

Sodullincomparison · 04/12/2021 10:45

Managed moves can be an excellent way to have a fresh start. As a secondary head, it worries me that you don’t feel there would be 12 weeks without a major incident that would result in a. New school asking your child to leave.

If it is low level as you mention in your post then this wouldn’t be a worry.

By making the change of school through a managed move, it allows your child to have some additional support to settle in.

That being said, I’ve had students who are positively angelic for twelve weeks but by week thirteen....

TrashyPanda · 04/12/2021 10:41

Was he the only one caught?

Imitatingdory · 04/12/2021 10:40

I second applying for an EHCP.

Don’t deregister him.

You have the right to request a SEN expert be part of the independent review panel.

Has DS been permanently excluded before? If this is the first time you can still make an in year application to your catchment school, and if they have places they can only refuse if they believe DS may display challenging behaviour, and compared to other local schools it has a high proportion of pupils with challenging behaviour or who have previously been permanently excluded and admitting DS would prejudice the provision of efficient education or use of resources. It’s in the Admissions Code.

FenceSplinters the LA must arrange alternative education from day 6. If they refuse to do this you can force them to via Judicial Review.

Butterflystar76 · 04/12/2021 10:35

Have you tried just making an application to the school you want to get him to?
Schools should not be able to refuse on the grounds that he has been permanently excluded and you would have the right to appeal if they did.
Have you got local SEND group supporting you with the independent panel?

SSOYS · 04/12/2021 10:32

If it’s at all possible, I would instruct a solicitor who specialises in exclusion appeals.

KateInHappyland · 04/12/2021 10:31

@Expelled123

All physical evidence pointed to nicotine pouches, they actually confiscated the product.

In a court of law, the school wouldn't have stood a chance. My son was on course to get 7's and 8's in his GCSE's. He's fucked.

I understand what everyone's saying, I do. But I will never understand how possible intent trumps evidence, and is worthy of leaving his life in tatters.

I understand, OP.

I read your post further down where you’ve said he didn’t actually realise he had a banned product. I think that changes a lot.

Am I reading it right, in that he thought it was legal but age restricted and it turned out not to be - but the school assuming he knew it was banned and therefore had intent?

I agree it doesn’t seem fair based on that and it’s such a shame that he’s now going to struggle.
Are either you or his dad stay at home parents, or does he have nearby family/grandparents he could go to during the day? If so, would homeschooling or an online tutor be an option to get him through GCSEs?

cansu · 04/12/2021 10:28

What strikes me is that you are not keen on a managed move in case he fucks about and they refuse to take him permanently. He is either a major pain in the arse who brings banned stuff into school legal or not or he is a kid who gets into low level trouble occasionally who brought something banned in on one occasion. FwIW many schools would have gone for a fixed term so the fact that yours didn't suggests that your son is more than a liw level pain in the arse. The fact that you don't think he will behave in a managed move kind of supports this. Is he remorseful? You don't mention how he feels about the behaviour or the punishment.

Beautiful3 · 04/12/2021 10:23

He took something into school that he shouldn't have. You mention tgat his behaviour has been challenging at times, this would be the real reason, why they don't want him. But didn't have anything to exclude him with, your son gave them that opportunity. I would let him learn from his mistake and make the best of a bad situation. Is it worth contacting local colleges, asking if they'd take him on. They run the gases also nvqs. Is he best suited to bricklaying/decorating/car mechanics etc?

williremember · 04/12/2021 10:18

@Expelled123

Viviennemary, he's not a constant trouble maker, without going into to much detail, most incidents are stage one bar one (when he ran into the head, interestingly), minor incidents.
You are excusing his bad behaviour. Most children get through school without any behaviour points. Children shouldn't be smoking so shouldn't need nicotine patches. You are also being naive to think he didn't know what he had.

I suggest you work with him to accept the consequences of his behaviour and focus on getting him an appropriate managed move.

FrippEnos · 04/12/2021 10:17

I doubt that the school could have expelled him for one incident.
They have to produce evidence supporting their actions. this is then upheld or rejected by the governors.

I suspect that part of the issue was that you (may have) focused on this one incident.

I could of course be wrong as I wasn't there.

I also find your comment about not being able to exclude 10+ in one go quite bizarre, especially as it seems to excuse your DS's behaviour.

Sirzy · 04/12/2021 10:15

But you said yourself it’s their policy. It’s a clear policy.

If nothing else it’s a bloody good lesson to not accept random substances without knowing what it is!

pumpkinpal · 04/12/2021 10:15

Your anger is misdirected.

Your son has a problem and is a problem.

Focus on that.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:14

Sirzy, that's fine, but it is not the same punishment for vapes or other smoking cessation products.

OP posts:
Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:13

Viviennemary, he's not a constant trouble maker, without going into to much detail, most incidents are stage one bar one (when he ran into the head, interestingly), minor incidents.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 04/12/2021 10:10

And from the schools POV taking firm action on the student caught sends out a message to others that they have zero tolerance

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:10

All physical evidence pointed to nicotine pouches, they actually confiscated the product.

In a court of law, the school wouldn't have stood a chance. My son was on course to get 7's and 8's in his GCSE's. He's fucked.

I understand what everyone's saying, I do. But I will never understand how possible intent trumps evidence, and is worthy of leaving his life in tatters.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 04/12/2021 10:08

I agree with you that this was an excuse to expel him rather than that one incident being the reason. But I don't blame thd school if he is a constant troublemaker. I am not saying he is because I don't know but you say yourself his behaviour isn't good.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:06

Tell me about it! Loads of other kids used it, just weren't caught. My son won't 'snitch', which is gutting, because arguably she wouldn't be able to exclude 10+ in one go.

OP posts:
FenceSplinters · 04/12/2021 10:03

What really gets me is the double standards. There are kids doing much worse things and getting away with it.

Original poster
Expelled123 · 04/12/2021 10:00

Sorry to hear you're going through similar FenceSplinters, it's unbelievably hard Flowers

OP posts:
Doubledoorsontogarden · 04/12/2021 09:58

I don’t think that the school should or will overturn it. Focus on a managed move and your son’s behaviour, not just during the trial period.