My son has been permanently excluded

Strange - I could buy Snus in my local supermarket - but not a bottle of wine.

I don't think it's availability in your supermarket was at the forefront of the school's mind here. OP is in the UK, where Snus is illegal and wine is sold in supermarkets.

You can buy handguns at the supermarket in the US- they would also result in a permanent exclusion in a UK school.

Strange - I could buy Snus in my local supermarket - but not a bottle of wine. Would the exclude him for a cigarette?

@ Da1sycha1n There was a ‘loophole’ to avoid permanent exclusion through an accumulation of exclusion days Or to stop attendance fines/ legal action by withdrawing a child.

Once a child is out of education for two months they have a right to enter under Fair Access Protocol. However, there have been changes to this is recent years to prevent this happening and to ensure that students receive a place at a school which is able to help.

Having attended dozens of Fair Access Protocol meetings, everyone around that table want the best for children and no child would be left without a place by the end of the meeting.

To get a child a place in a PRU is like gold dust and not an easy process at all. They are all over their PAN and have huge demand coming from many directions. The PRU team will be able to advise the best way to move forward in your local area as they all operate differently.

Should say 'unable' to implement

@Whiskyinajar your sister should be going mad with the government for seriously underfunding the education system, not schools.
The reason mainstream often fails pupils with SEND including ADHD is due to lack of staff.
In my case, I am managing two children with ADHD, one dyspraxic, one suspected ASD along with a child with significant global delay (think mental age 2) with one part time TA; often I'm single-handed. This is in a KS1 class, so young children who are all needy due to the fact they're only 5 years old! So I probably am failing lots of my pupils which makes me feel awful and demoralised. I try my best and know what interventions / adaptations etc are needed but am largely able to implement as I can only do so much without any support.

I haven’t RTFT. I am a Chair of Governors and experienced in exclusions and Independent Review Panels. I’d be happy to advise, feel free to DM me. I’m out this afternoon so may not reply right away but if I can offer some advice, I will.

OP I sit on independent appeal panels around exclusions as well as being chair of governors at schools.
Your son has been caught with the substance and it does not matter what it actually was, if your son believed that it was SNUS then it is completely appropriate for the school to permanently exclude on the basis of this belief. You have to recognise that your son deliberately bought the substance to the school knowing it was banned and was totally aware that what he was doing was wrong according to the school's behaviour policy.
The fact that the governors have upheld the exclusion means that a managed move or Fair access protocol is not appropriate at this time. Your son is at the PRU and will remain there until the independent review panel have met. If the review panel agree again with the governors decision then your son is then formally permanently excluded and the LA will then have the responsibility to find him a new school - but not necessarily the one you may want.
As a matter of course you should ask for an SEND expert to be at the review panel. Their responsibility is to tell the panel whether the school have appropriate SEND policies in place but you never know what might come out at the review so it is always worth requesting the SEND expert. However if you argue at the independent review panel that ADHD was the significant factor then I suspect that the response will be that the review is upheld.
Given your situation I would argue at the review panel meeting he knew he was doing something wrong and that he is a fool for doing what he did. His ADHD may have contributed slightly to his stupid behaviour in bringing in the substance. The fact that there is a belief that it is not SNUS you accept is irrelevant at this review panel meeting. However the school is aware that he is not the only one who has "sinned" in this way, he was the one that was caught. You therefore believe that the action of the school was too heavy handed and that a long fixed term exclusion would be more appropriate in the circumstances. Obviously if the school behaviour policy specifically says any drugs is a permanent exclusion then this line of defence is not realistic and in those circumstances I cannot see what your line of defence could be
However you also need to recognise that the review panel only has three possible decisions they can make. They can uphold the permanent exclusion. They can request that the governing board of the school review the evidence submitted or that became available at the review panel meeting or they can quash the GB decision and ask them to reconsider the decision. The later situation can only happen where there has been unfairness or illegality by the school/GB. Nothing that has been said would suggest this is the case. There is no ability of the review panel to remove the permanent exclusion, they can only ask the GB panel to review, who can make any decision they want.
Sorry but I think you need to accept that your son is going to be permanently excluded and you need to make the best of a difficult decision.

Why do you think the PRU is a hell hole?

Why don't you try working with them and your ds to get him through to Easter, with a move to another school planned from there.

prh47bridge thank you for confirming that it isn’t the case.

This school has permanently excluded him - it’s done. Not a decision they take lightly. They need to prove a certain level and they have taken SEN into account. End of.

His GCSEs are fucked ? Not yet it’s December into year 10- speak to your son. New school 12 weeks with counselling support applying for EHCP etc inclusion team engage with new school - do whatever they ask. But Sen or not he’s 15 or there abouts so need to understand this is on him - he fucked up - if he gets a new school and second chance - don’t duck this up as there won’t be a third.

He shouldn’t be taking tobacco or anything other then his school books and pe into school - I would have taken his phone, and all his privileges away from him.

Direct your anger at him. Change the firing line.

So blaming adhd or Sen or the fact it was ‘only tobacco’ and start understanding he’s over 10 - because I didn’t realise x y z was illegal
Or know what it was - is not going to wash in court before a judge - this is a life lesson a huge one - take it

Have you got an EHCP?

It’s very very hard and expensive for schools to permanently exclude and they usually try very hard not to as don’t want a permanent exclusion on their records and they have to pay a lot of money to permanent exclude… soooo knowing that we’ve been trying to permanently exclude a student who has done arguably 100 things worse than your son and our governors refused the exclusion, I feel there must be more to it than you described?

“ Most children get through school without any behaviour points. ”

I think this really depends on the school. My year 7 son got a behaviour point for forgetting a book. And a detention for not doing his homework. Obviously he should do his homework (and we’ve said that to him) nut I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t have resulted in a detention when I was at school (approx 3000 years ago).

[quote TeenMinusTests]@Da1sycha1n Also, if a pupil is electively home schooled for a period and then an application to a local school is made, even if there's no room at the school they have to take the pupil after 7 weeks of further home schooling. So you could take him out the PRU to 'electively home school', make an application and he'll either get in there and then, or after 7 weeks. This is not widely advertised or known about (possibly for obvious reasons to prevent popular schools being overrun!) but it is a fact.

Really! @prh47bridge can you confirm this? Surely there are caveats?[/quote]
There is no such requirement in England in either the Admissions Code or the law. I can't speak for other parts of the UK.

However, after both of the experiences I've had with mine I'd recommend the 14-16 College provision - it totally transformed my son's experience and was amazing for him.

I do think there is a lot of truth in the school having decided they don't want a pupil there and a situation presenting itself where the pupil is neither given the benefit of the doubt nor given a fair hearing.
(My DS was recently suspended for an incident due to past behaviour. There was a group of kids (not all friends) and one of my DS's mates starting having a verbal go at another child (to do with an impending criminal case against that child. I expect it was pretty unpleasant stuff. My DS was nowhere near his mate and didn't so much as open his mouth.
Teacher tells DS's mate and DS to accompany him to see head - both suspended. There were at least 15 independent witnesses. Two of whom are friends' kids (both don't really like my DS but told their parents they couldn't understand why my DS was suspended.)
Explained to DS that he had been in trouble in the past and it was easy to scapegoat him. He has been working hard to turn things around so it was galling that no teacher would believe him. )

The thing I have found best for my DS was he is now doing maths and English and an apprenticeship in Yr11. School is a terrible environment for him.I could write an essay on why, the teachers who told him from day 1 he was a worthless failure, the contempt, his mental health problems, low self esteem etc. But that won't help you.

I still live in fear he will be excluded this year.

What is helpful to know is that there are many more options out there than I even knew existed. I probably would have discounted many of those off the cuff had we got hit total desperation but there may be a solution out there which you hadn't considered which will help.

Could you remove him and do home education activities?
Some colleges will take home educated 14 year olds for certain courses but not all.
Maybe you all just need to take the pressure off

No it isn’t, not in the way you describe, as I’m sure @prh47bridge or @admission can confirm.

Here is the FAP rules. I believe the previous version specifically mentioned EHE pupils under L, but not in the way you have posted.

@Imitatingdory - I'll try and find a link to the LEA/DfE guidance that I found years ago (having previously gone round in circles with the local schools and LEA). I was astounded at the time, but have subsequently advised other parents of this and they too have got their children in to their preferred/local, often 'full' school.

[quote Imitatingdory]@Da1sycha1n That’s not true!
There is provision if needed via the FAP, but not in the way you describe, and does not necessarily result in a place at your preferred school.[/quote]
It is true It happened when my DC was in y8. They have to have been previously electively home-schooled, out of conventional education for 7 weeks and the school has to take them.

Sorry for you all OP.

Why is the PRU awful? My experience of those is that generally they are excellent at supporting students with additional needs like ADHD. In a smaller environment with more dedicated teaching there's usually a better outcome for the student.

It isn't fair but I know PRUs are getting a lot of this at the moment, students schools cannot cope with (usually with some kind of issue like ASD and ADHD) .

My sister works as a SENCO in a PRU and says she gets kids schools refer to as "unreachable" who are totally different in a small dedicated support unit. She goes mad about the way schools refer to these students who with the right support achieve so much.

@Da1sycha1n That’s not true!
There is provision if needed via the FAP, but not in the way you describe, and does not necessarily result in a place at your preferred school.

You say that his behaviour is low level but that he's unlikely to manage to behave for 12 weeks which is confusing.

My son vaped at school when he was 15. It was the first time he'd misbehaved and he was suspended and had Saturday detention. If it wasn't his first offence he would have been dealt with harsher but he took the punishment and didn't complain (which was unlike his behaviour at home at the time) and it was forgotten about and didn't affect Sixth Form and university applications.

Schools do suspend for stuff like selling herbs and pretending it's cannabis sort of things. Where did he get the nicotine patch ?

How is he academically? Would he benefit from a more vocational based programme? There's specialist ones for those in his position, often teaching a trade plus maths and English. Alternatively is online school a possibility or is he not self motivated. Unfortunately he did break the rules but you can asked for him to be placed elsewhere