DD has got a detention for using racist language

I just wanted to make that statement separately forom this one!

She thoroughly deserves to be punished for the bullying behaviour, but I don't think she meant to be racist.

I don't think, OP, that you can separate the two in this instance. From what you have said your DD and her BF have been using this boy for practice, trying out their bullying routine. Horrid thought but it happens to lots of kids when they change schools, become tiny fish in a huge pond. Her small stature will probably be feeding into it, having to find her own feet in a new school.

You need to back the school wholeheartedly and let her now that you want her to see how her behaviour is titally unacceptable but that you still love her and she can put it all right by learning better ways to control her possible anxieties.

In short, she needs to be pinished for her behaviour but she also needs support for the underlying causes of it.

The apologist have started to crawl out of the woodwork

These hypotheticals about 'pig' to Jewish or Muslim children is strange, I have never heard my friends who are Muslim or Jewish ever experience or complain about this? I work in a Muslim organisation and we often laugh about viral memes such as 'you dutty pig' and nobody is offended seems fictitious - like people being offended by poppies

@Dontfuckingsaycheese calling someone a cheeky monkey isn't racist. Being in an argument and telling a black person that they 'look like a monkey' or similar is racist, don't play dumb. If the girl was laughing with a friend and called them a cheeky monkey, that is not a racist comment.

That's unlikely to be random insult. I reckon she knew what she was saying.

Mmm!

Boy: Hey midget...
DD: You horrible pig

Boy is Jewish or Muslim

Boy: Miss, miss she called me a pig and I am very upset about that

when did it take on racist connotations?

When it is directed at a black person. It always has been.

Context is everything.

Yeah OP, this is one of those times where you don't need to overthink or see both sides. Time to step up and be a parent and let her know thst you support the school and she is never to say anything like that again.

There has been other incidences with this boy too verging on the bullying and I fully support the school in giving her a detention

@SaveTheMockingBird Do you mean that your daughter has been bullied by this boy, or that she has been bullying him? It's not clear.

Either way, and leaving aside who said what, bullying needs to be dealt with.

With regard to the specific incident: I would not contact school. They have come up with a sanction which they feel appropriate. I'd reinforce at home that she can't use certain words. Then leave it at that (and deal with the bullying instead, whether your DD be the perpetrator or the victim).

I think it does rather depend. I can believe that she wouldn't know that calling someone who is Muslim a pig would be extremely offensive. And pig is an insult in and of itself. If she called a Black child a monkey then she must have known, because 'monkey' is not an insult in and of itself, unless it's being used in a racist context.

I would want to talk to the HOY about this as a general ongoing issue, addressing the way he has behaved towards her while acknowledging the hurt she also caused. It does seem a bit unfair that he could be nasty to her on a regular basis and that be ignored, and only have the behaviour recognised when it's racism. All bullying should be taken extremely seriously.

Tbh Op, I don’t think that you are coming across well.
I would be ashamed and furious if my child behaved in the way that your dd has.
Stop making excuses for her, what she did was wrong and she has been punished . In fact, she is fortunate to get away with a detention.
In my dcs school using racist language would get you a three day suspension which would be recorded.

I don’t mean I don’t think that it is racist. I’m not questioning it. My question just is when did it happen?

I agree with pp that she should be pulled up for the racist slur but he also called her a midget which IMO is no better really.

If it's the word I think it is, then it's not an offensive word unless used as a weapon, so seeing as she was retaliating, she must have known it was a 'bad' word in the context. So even if she didn't know it was 'racist' or what 'racism' really is, she knew it was a very hurtful word that would only hurt children who looked like the other boy.

You need to be careful here - she needs to understand that the other boy shouldn't have been so mean to her, and that boys aren't more important than girls, but there are some words that are always unacceptable, no matter how nasty someone is.

I don't see the harm in you contacting the school to advise that you know her behaviour was unacceptable and you are dealing with it, but separately, his behaviour was not acceptable and you expect them to be dealing with that separately. You can stand up for her, whilst not downplaying racism. Racism is abhorrent. So is general bullying.

This is a genuine question and I’m sorry for being so uninformed- when did it actually become racist to call someone a monkey? I feel ridiculously old and out of touch here but in my day we said things like ‘cheeky monkey’. I might even have said it recently. I will try to ensure I don’t. But - when did it take on racist connotations?

or does racism trump ablism

In this specific case, yes.

FYI I'm a teacher and the kids ABSOLUTELY know that this animal name is racist- it's a little fad amongst them at the moment - if you mention this animal is class, they will gasp and look at their friends - like they do with words that are rude or sound rude etc etc

My first thought was that she called the boy a pig - that’s the only word I can think of that would relate to culture. I’m not sure many 11-year-olds not of that culture would have any idea about the connotations of that word. It’s bandied about frequently in playgrounds.

His punishment is irrelevant.

I wouldn't worry that the school now think your DD is a malicious racist troublemaker forever.

Teachers know that children are small people who are developing - they get in trouble, there is a consequence and it is over. Lesson learned.

I feel sorry for that boy and his parents who will have to educate and prepare him for more to come.