Marking in state/independent

@Kikkomam you sounded so assured in your post I felt that you must have a reason why that happens.

Why do A and A students from private schools do better at university than state A and A? No idea!

@Kikkomam explain your reasoning why please? And why that then doesn’t apply to the a* grade that the article specifies.

Also a teeny tiny percentage of children at state schools get contextual offers - probably similar to the amount at indie’s on bursaries. Kids at good comps and grammars won’t get near a contextual offer.

My daughter is year 9, independent school.

Day to day class tests are peer marked. All homework / formal tests are teacher marked.

Fair enough re maths. There’s no way you could just circulate and give meaningful feedback on an essay in a lesson for thirty students.

for all but those with the very highest A-level grades, state school graduates tend to have higher degree outcomes than independent school graduates with the same prior educational attainment

Well yes, a student that comes out of a good indie with small classes and CCD at A level probably wouldn't be as successful at uni as a state school student with the same grades, as universities realise when making lower state school offers.

I teach maths, if I can't tell from circulating and looking in their books during the lesson, then how would it be any different looking after the lesson?!

I accept we're talking about different subjects but no one way fits all. Marking classwork for maths is 99% useless and gives me no more information than I already had.

I don’t believe you can know exactly where your students are from merely circulating. I’m not saying it isn’t helpful because it can be.

I don’t always circulate either. Sometimes it’s detrimental to classroom management to move around too much.

@Kikkomam
"However, she added that the error did not affect their main conclusion that “for all but those with the very highest A-level grades, state school graduates tend to have higher degree outcomes than independent school graduates with the same prior educational attainment”.

@kikkomam Yes it is a very popular oversubscribed prep so they can push back at bothersome parents but they do still endlessly try it on. My friend is a head at a prep where he can't push back much as school finances in a precarious place- but we tell him he can just enjoy writing a 'secret head' type book when it is all over, there are some very funny stories.

I went to v good private school almost 20years ago. All essays were marked. Short pieces in foreign languages were marked. I would have felt v discouraged if they were not marked as I spent quite a while doing these.

I’m pretty sure all maths and science homework marked as well (though sometimes we did exercises in lessons and did peer marking in the lesson). Foreign language vocab tests were peer marked in lesson. I feel that feedback is most effective when given soon after the work and it’s particularly important in essay subjects - but understand the constraints in the state sector if there are 30 pupils per class.

UPDATE
A previous version of this article reported that the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) had found that based on the degree results of all students who graduated in 2013/14, 82 % of state school pupils got firsts or upper seconds, compared to 73% of those from independent schools. Following publication of this article, HEFCE has confirmed that that it made a transposition error, and in fact, 73 per cent of state school graduates gained a first or upper second class degree compared with 82 per cent of independent school graduates. The statistics have now been removed from the article

Fwiw

I regularly monitor in schools. We look for the difference the marking and feedback makes to the progress of each child. It is about the knowledge and skill of the teacher to move learning on, how they do that doesn't matter.
Reams of inaccurate written comments or comments that are too broad or non specific are less effective than one or two written comments which are specific to the subject and defined next steps in learning fir the child.
Moving learning on quickly is more effective through direct verbal feedback between teacher and child. Why wait!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-inspection-handbook-eif/school-inspection-handbook

Point 73
OFSTED
'does not specify the frequency type, or volume of marking and feedback'

It also says written feedback can be good and improve attainment. But points out that it is time costly.

From the EEF research 'Method of delivery, verbal or written is less important than ensuring the principles of effective feedback are followed'.

Although the HTs comment gives lie to the idea that they would adjust their teaching to placate parents...!

Research based around 'marking and feedback'. educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/news/eef-publishes-new-guidance-report-teacher-feedback-to-improve-pupil-learning

That's rude (I am also absolutely not an emailer - I trust my dds teachers 100% - marking and all!)

@kikkomam Straight back at you. Amazingly not all state secondary teachers are 'thick' and are able to tell how effective their teaching, marking and assessment is, and don't need unqualified parents to tell them how to do it. As my DN's indie headteacher said at a recent speech day speech; "I do wish you would stop emailing us after you have had a bottle of chablis. Please leave the teaching of your children to us." My DB thought this was hilarious (he is not the emailing type.)

Which is fine for a small class to get that level of teacher written feedback. But for a class of 32,whole class feedback is good enough and impactful compared to the time taken.

I teach in a prep - work has to be acknowledged every lesson. This might mean I put a question for pupil to answer, comment on SPaG or presentation, or give a verbal feedback stamp. I properly mark assessments, but we do a lot of self marking, and more importantly corrections.

The feedback on essays can be verbal. Doesn't need to be written down to show it happened!

[quote Hercisback]@Kikkomam Marking isn't detrimental, it just doesn't have all the benefits some (particularly private school) parents think it does.[/quote]
Essays need to be marked and feedback given. Maths and science, not so much.

Amazingly not all private school parents are thick, and are perfectly able to see if their teens are learning effectively.

@Kikkomam Marking isn't detrimental, it just doesn't have all the benefits some (particularly private school) parents think it does.