IB or A Levels

Sorry to keep poking my nose in on this thread but to add to the previous poster’s comments. My son is full on busy with 3 A levels, an EPQ and his sport. However for his friends who previously had relatively few extra curriculars to put on their CV, the IB has been perfect because the CAS component gives them a “forced”extra curricular activity which adds to their academics. There is no way my DS (who trains nearly every evening for his sport) would have had the time to balance his sporting commitments with an IB. He needs the timetable gaps he gets with A levels to keep on top of his A level work.

Fully agree however that for a bright, motivated effortlessly "straight A" student it doesn't really matter. For them it comes down to a heavier timetable of a marathon vs possibility of a later choice.

In my view however for the vast majority of average students (below top 10%) with top UK uni ambitions, A-levels is by far the safest choice.

For the top student with top US/European uni ambitions (and motivation) the IB is probably worth the stretch if you are fairly certain that DC will not be distracted at any point in the critical age (16-18) as there's no option to coast and cram. A 40+ IBD requires a high level of maturity (either that, or a very supportive school/parent) which most pple at that age don't possess in my view.

In our case DS is a top student in his year but even for him (if his current school were to offer both) I would still advise him to try to make up his mind early and do the A-levels. Much less anxiety and a safer path, when you think about all the distractions faced by 16-18 year olds.

Both routes are valuable and impressive.

With IB you do 6 subjects and cannot opt out of English and Maths so if you hate those subjects you still have to continue with them.
Of course you cannot study those 6 subjects to anything like the depth of 3 A levels.

Since A levels were reformed about 5 years ago they are a lot harder with a lot more content. They were reformed in collaboration with universities. So the advantage of A levels is that there is much more choice, you can focus on your 3 favourite subjects and 99% of level 3 qualifications are A levels so universities in the U.K. are fully set up for these.

I was also told a few years ago that if you do higher IB Maths the level isn’t sufficient to study Maths at university and so you have to do an additional bridging course to get you up to speed. I’m not sure if that is still the case.

Does this mean that DD will have to choose Physics A level if she wants to do Engineering. She doesn't like Physics so perhaps Engineering is no an option for her.

It's a bit like recent threads about DC who want to do Economics degrees without Maths A level, or Medicine without Chemistry. Not completely impossible, but it really limits your options.

I would suggest your DD has a look at some uni websites and sees what A levels they ask for courses she thinks might interest her.

OP - Your DC is looking at very similar IB subjects to my DS did. His IB teacher warned him that IB maths is narrower than A level but goes deeper and becomes more like further maths. My son is an able maths student (got an 9) but was warned that it would be more difficult to get a 7 in IB than an A* in A level. And given that for some of the courses he was considering he would need a 7 in IB but only an A at A Level, that seemed a risk not worth taking.

Also if your DC is looking at STEM subjects in the top unis, my DD( who is at Oxford doing a STEM subject) said that her friends who took IB had a lot of gaps in their knowledge compared to those who did A level maths and further maths. They had either done pure maths or applied maths but not both and I think she said there was little or no mechanics in IB. This created extra pressure for them as they had to do a lot of work to catch up.

In my view many courses at the top UK universities are set up to value deep knowledge in a focused area especially for STEM courses. The IB works better in international universities who follow a wider liberal arts regime or for those UK courses that don’t build on previous knowledge of a subject such a business studies or where breadth is helpful such as international studies.

It’s a real shame because my DS loved the ethos and breadth of IB but the risks to him (with his SEN and for the courses he wants) were too high so he opted for A levels.

The DP is the diploma programme - so the full 6 subjects with all the extras mentioned. The CP is the careers programs where the student does less subjects, usually a careers based btech and doesn't have the same core requirements. It sounds like your daughter would do the DP. It is pretty intense, especially if the deadlines are at similar times.

I taught A levels for 6 years and then IBDP/CP for the last 8 years or so. I've also been Head of Sixth form at a DP only school. The IB offers more breadth than A levels, if the centre offers a wide range of subjects. The DP is rigorous however if time management is a strength, it's more than doable. I've seen relatively weak students pass and gain the diploma- if your child has an idea of the university they might like to go, check what they require. Most well known will want 30+ plus points, the "good" one 35+ and the exceptional ones 40+. Passing score is 24 (with the CAS signed off, and the EE and TOK essay complete) I wouldn't say it's intellectual snobbery, it's more that in the UK the IB is nowhere near as well known as it is in other countries so people aren't sure about it.

Thanks all. Not really what i hoped to hear! But better not guess to have my fears confirmed. It’s difficult as she also doesn’t want to leave her friends and the stability that gives her. Thank goodness we don’t have to decide quite yet .

I started on A levels, swapped onto IB as it was really being pushed on me as a "more prestiguous" qualification but ultimately swapped back and got 5 A top grade A levels instead - I would never have got a comparable score with the IB. As others have said, it's a great course for able all-rounders but if your child is highly specialist (in my case, in humanities but frankly shocking at STEM), they won't get a qualification representative of their talents.

I have taught both the IB and A Level. IB is a wonderful range of subjects but it did cause much more student stress than A-levels. It is also not great for a student who wants to specialise in Maths or languages.

I have a DS and I will choose a secondary that does A-levels for him. They are easier and universities value them the same as IB. In fact, some universities don't really understand the IB and can ask for higher comparative grades in IB than A-level.

@Pickle1216 As I posted above we considered IB seriously for my DS. He has a severe processing disorder although did manage to get a reasonably good set of GCSE results. However with IB he would have had to take English where he only got a 6 and his chance of getting a strong grade even at SL would have been hard. A levels allowed him to focus on 3 of the subjects where he got a 9.

He values the free time he gets with 3 A levels. His learning difference means it takes longer for him to read and absorb information and the free periods in A level give him time to do his homework properly. It also gives him time to do his sport which really helps with his general well-being. He currently has extra SEN classes for one subject because of his processing issues and there was time to do this because he has plenty of free periods.

I’m an English teacher and teach both IB and A level. While I love the international nature and broad range of texts at IB I do think the standards are lower than A level equivalent. You whizz through lots of texts so I never feel I’ve really taught something in the same way as I do with A level. Having said that some students do thrive on it.

Great thread thank you! We are dealing with this dilemma at the moment. School offers IB only and we definitely prefer it in terms of content and overall philosophy. DD would like to stay where she is and do IB but is worried about workload despite being fairly academic because she has ADHD and everything takes her longer and causes stress. On the other hand, there is less independent study and that might possibly be a plus. A levels would allow her to drop some core subjects she isn't as interested in (English and maths) but overall it is so hard to work out what would suit best. Would be interested to hear from anyone who has done IB or at least deliberated over it with ADHD or something similar. Is the amount of free/independent study with A levels also a problem?

DD very much wanted to do IB, but no state school offers it nearby and I can't afford private. She really struggled to narrow down her choices to 4 A levels and doesn't know what career she wants to go into to. But she unexpectedly struggled with one of her A level subjects and has dropped it, if she'd been doing IB she might have struggled. Her sixth form has also picked up a few private school kids who can't couldn't cope with the IB, but who are flying with more limited subjects.

@Kikkomam I meant to say my brother found the IB hard. He obtained top grades throughout his undergraduate/postgraduate degrees (all Firsts) but found the IB at school hard

I think doing NEAs as part of her A levels has been beneficial though

I agree, especially if the student didn't do an EPQ.