Is DD below average, average, above average?

I never understood the working at and aiming for marks. And if I asked a teacher they really couldn't explain it either - some said it was if they took the exam now, others said it was a grade that if the child continues to progress as they were (some of the working at grades were 8s, some were 6s - obviously you aren't going to get an 8 in physics one term in, but equally I knew she was not going to get a 6 in English). Teachers seem to have their own criteria. She did get her 8 in physics and 9s in English...
Conversely my son got two grades below his working at and working towards. I really feel the school let him down as if we understood he was doing so badly I would have got him extra help (he didn't revise that much either as I think he thought he had it in the bag).

Dd is year 9 and predicted 6s across all subjects except pe she’s in line for a 5. She’s on track - the app tells me with an arrow system. They then reset the targets at the start of year 10 and that will be her gcse predictions. To be honest I’ve no idea what’s normal or good for year 9 so the year 10 ones will be a much better indication. I’m hoping for 7s and above for her (not told her that) but I’ve no idea if that’s realistic. It feels like if she’s already a 6 at the end of year 9 then that should be achievable but it’s impossible to know.

When I was at school you needed at least a C in Maths and English to be able to progress to whatever you wanted to do. Do most providers of post 16 education and training require a 4 or a 5 at GCSE now? I have a year 8 who really struggles at school, but I am not sure what he absolutely must manage to achieve in order to be allowed to do anything after his GCSEs.

Ds2 is now in year 11 so I have been through this already with Ds1.

Lots of schools will just say a 7+ as the grade boundaries shift every year and the 9s and 8s are based on the grade 7 result. A full explanation with some lovely maths involved is here ofqual.blog.gov.uk/2017/04/05/setting-grade-9-in-new-gcses/

Roughly, a 7 is an A in old money, so any child predicted As across the board is doing very well. A 4 is an old C but classed as a low pass C, a 5 is a high pass C, a 6 is a B. The 9 was brought in by Gove to show the best of the best, however Oxford consider an 8 and a 9 with equal merit as they are both A*s.

I thought schools use 'flight paths' now where they work back from a guesstimate for gcse based on year 7 / SATs performance? And this gives a target for the intermediate years?

I try to work out how ds is doing by asking him about in class assessments. Most kids know where they are in their class, whether there are usually in the top 5 or so, if they always get some of the lowest marks or if they are doing ok sitting somewhere in the middle.

This only helps if you understand the relative abilities of the rest of the class. If you're middling in a mixed ability comprehensive school class, are you doing better than if you're bottom of the top set of a super selective?

We don't use national expectations in secondary school. It is the expected progress made by each individual student against their own target grade that is important. For example, 2 students could both achieve a grade 6 in a maths test. But for one student that would be an underachievement if they are capable of getting a grade 9. But for another student a grade 6 is fantastic if they were expected to only get a grade 4.
As a benchmark a grade 4 is a pass but it depends on the individual child's abilities in that subject.
I always tell students not to compare themselves to the class or year average as it is meaningless. It's about what is good for them. But I understand it is confusing since every school does it differently on reports!

We currently get attitude to learning one word and one grade - talking to teachers we found that many were using even this sparse system inconsitatly between different departments/subjects.

I much prefer P/T meetings for this reason - because usually get some sense of how they are doing though odd teacher can be hard to get information from. Plus talking to our children and asking about tests and assignments and how they think things are going.

Surely the more important question is: Is she happy and enjoying school?

Y10 -14/15 years old you do start to think about careers and post GCSE options for them. If you want to get tutors or put in any extra support if they need a particular grade/subject help then surely early as possible is best.

I try to work out how ds is doing by asking him about in class assessments. Most kids know where they are in their class, whether there are usually in the top 5 or so, if they always get some of the lowest marks or if they are doing ok sitting somewhere in the middle.

Obviously it is just a very rough guide, but was good enough for me combined with target grades.

After getting 5As for his Scottish Highers earlier this year, his latest report says he is working at 6's for most subjects (6 is a low C here). Most of his teachers have given every pupil a 6 because they started the year a month late and have only known them for 4 weeks by the time reports were issued. Tick boxing waste of everyone's time.

Measuring against targets is ridiculous too.
DD has some targets that are 8s. Until she got to Year 11, no teacher was prepared to say that she was on target to get an 8, so her reports were littered with "working below expectations" despite, in some cases, her getting 100% on every test.

I think if the report says that the child's attitude to work is good then that's probably the best you can hope for.

@superram not achieving target grades isn't necessarily underperforming. My child had an exceptionally good day when he took his SATs which means his target grades since starting secondary are 9 in maths and 8+ in science which he is nowhere near. The targets are beyond his ability

I assume that the reports are measuring against the pupil's individual target grade (ours match GCSE grades now too) rather than the whole cohort. So if it says they are working below/at/exceeding standard, that means below/at/exceeding whatever that pupil's target grade is for that particular subject.

Teachers won't have a huge amount of data at this point in the school year - maybe 3 substantial bits of work - so they're giving their best guess.
That reminds me of a friend whose sixth former was classed as a 'U'. Turns out that they hadn't done any coursework yet so there was nothing to grade. Rather than say 'not yet graded' like any normal person, they put failing/unclassified.

At this point in Year Ten, getting 4-6 in current performance is absolutely fine if her predicted grades are 7s. Predicting grades is a slightly silly business though. All the systems for doing this jus say 'on average, a child with this academic profile gets X grade.' But there are always outliers. It isn't unusual for children to peak early or late thereby under or over performing according to their projected grades.

If there are subjects you're worried about, I'd gently ask for clarification. Teachers won't have a huge amount of data at this point in the school year - maybe 3 substantial bits of work - so they're giving their best guess.

You never know if a pupil is being judged against (a) their own standard now (b) the average child now, or (c) someone at the end of the Key Stage.
Exactly this!

I’m a reasonably intelligent person, I got a good degree, I have a professional job but I find the secondary school reports as clear as fucking mud and no sensible explanations are ever forthcoming.

There should be a GCSE for secondary schools in communicating with parents.

It's not you, it's them.
I had similar problems when the DC were at school. DS got a very poor report in year 7 for one subject - an ab initio language. It turns out that, after one term, he was being judged against the standard of your average Y7 who had been studying it for several years. That made as much sense as judging him against a Professor of Linguistics. Utter nonsense.

The reports are as clear as mud and confuse parents. You never know if a pupil is being judged against (a) their own standard now (b) the average child now, or (c) someone at the end of the Key Stage. They ought to be embarrassed at sending out such poor communication.

It's all artificial anyway.

Send an email with her report attached to HoY and ask for clarification.

Surely the more important question is: Is she happy and enjoying school?

You need to understand what "working at now" means. If it means that she'd get 4-6 if she took a GCSE paper today then it shouldn't be hard to work out that she is way above "average". If she only started GCSE work last month, then this is clearly not the case (except possibly in maths and English), but you should still expect some upward progress between now and the end of Year11 if she continues to work consistently (1 grade improvement between Year 11 mocks and real thing is often quoted, for example).

I'm not sure "average" is the guide you want to be working against anyway. Depending on her mentality she either needs to do "well enough for the next thing she wants to do" or as well as she possibly can. If her targets are 7s, that suggests that at age 11, she was considered to be above average and merely being "average" now may mean that she's not working to the best of her ability. Or it may mean she peaked early, and targets based on SATS are rubbish :)

There is no such thing as national expectations, a 5 is a c in old money (a good pass). If her target grade is a 7 and she’s getting 4’s then she’s massively underperforming.

I think you can use your initiative a bit here. If there telling you she's achieving 4-6s and you know that 4 is a pass, they're telling you she's at pass standard a year before her GCSEs. If working steadily, they normally expect about a grade's improvement per year. So she would achieve 5-7s. There is no 'national expectation' except that a 4 is deemed a pass in GCSEs.

Grades 8 & 9 can't be predicted anyway, because they just represent a proportion of the 7s - they are awarded to the highest achieving students on a fixed percentage.

Let's face it, you know she's doing ok.