Wilson's/Sutton Grammar or Graveney first in CAF?

If you find yourself deciding between fee-paying indie in Dulwich and grammar in Sutton while living in Dulwich, imagine you get offered a job in Sutton that pays additional income equivalent to the indie school fees and ask yourself if you would be happy taking that commute (no option for wfh!!) everyday for 5 or 7 years? Many people would say yes joyfully but many would say no and many would agonise over it and decide if it's worth the sacrifice on family time. No right or wrong answer

Not much advice, just offering a bit of hand holding as we are in the same position, with same commute from dulwich. Have not looked at Graveney as was frightened off by Instagram but also the commute would be rough as no direct trains or busses. Sutton and WCGS dont seem as bad in comparison, even if further as the crow flies. Also looking at the localish indies - worried about how to make the decision of a walkable indie and commutable grammar both make offers but equally worried about no offers at all!

[quote fedem]@EdgeOfTheSky
Unfortunately not, I am near Kingsdale ( taht was meant to be my first choice in the CAF..and know don't know where to put!) but K does not have catchment.[/quote]
We had a similar dilemma last year (although slightly different as we didn't know what DC was going to get in the WT as it was held after the CAF was due because of covid). While our circumstances will be different, what we ended up doing was:

1. Discounted the Sutton grammars completely as they just felt too far away for us, and a total headache if the trains go up the spout.

1. It then became a choice between putting Kingsdale or Graveney first. We put Kingsdale on location for us, a much easier journey (Graveney is 2 buses and about 40 mins from us).

1. We applied for a couple of independents as well as back up, which we were in a position to do.

When the chips fell, DC actually got into Kingsdale on national offer day which we weren't really expecting and got a similar score to your DS in the WT so would have got in by the end of the summer if we had put it first.

In the end we actually went for one of the indies, not because of academic standards (I'm pretty sure DC would have done as well at either of the other schools) but because we felt the indie would benefit her more in terms of confidence and extra curricular.

What I am thinking though (and I'm sure you have thought of this) is that you need to have a local school you are happy enough with as your sixth choice as there is a chance you won't get any of your 5 preferred (3 x Sutton grammar, Graveney, Kingsdale) on offer day so you don't want to be stressing that you've been allocated a school you really don't want while you play the waiting game.

I ultimateley rejected the Sutton grammars based primarily on the co-ed issue [and to a lesser extent about diversity, hothouse atmosphere, etc] but when I was thinking about journey time my thinking was roughly:

(1) I want a 'bad day' journey time to be 1hr max;
(2) Which means I want a Google maps best estimate of journey time to be 50 mins max;
(3) The 50 minutes needs to be a train/tube and walk time, not involving buses; and
(4) Thinking about a hypothetical day on which there are no trains running, I want the Google maps best estimate of a journey involving buses to be 1 hr max.

I agree: Dulwich to Wilson’s is not going to happen in 30 mins.

Have you done the respective journeys and looked at the number of relevant trains etc?

Are you not in catchment for Charter?

One of my DC is in Graveney. Was in their top set and was one of 4 non white kids in the class. School itself is very mixed. They did very well in GCSE and I think are broadly happy there.

[quote fedem]@DonGray yoi are right abd trains do get cancelled. If Wilson's was the choixe we would arrange an Uber for the morning (30min) because it could become a nightmare[/quote]
Dulwich to Wilson's in half an hour would not happen in the morning - I have a similar journey to work and is normally about 50 minutes in the morning - but can be 25 other times of day. They are all good schools and you'd be best seeing which appeals to your child the most. Do a pros and cons list with your son, score each point and see which school comes out top.

Really, I'd go for the one with the easiest commute. The boys get a lot of homework so the less time spent travelling to and from school the better. And boys who live far away often have to miss out on after school activities.

The three Sutton super-selectives are all academically challenging, have a healthy mix of geeky and sporty pupils and are ethnically diverse - ethnically Asian students are probably the biggest group in all three. The majority of pupils do tend to specialise in STEM subjects but there is plenty of opportunity to study the arts and humanities.

For the right kids they're great schools. It sounds like your DS would thrive in any of them.

Understood @fedem. I feel for you - they are such different schools and you really do get a feel when you look around. Graveney is so different from the Sutton grammars, and each of the Sutton grammars are quite different from each other really. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about WCGS.

I don't know about your commute - it should be an important factor, so make sure you try it out before you make your decision. But I know kids at all of those schools and I have a DS at WCGS. We didn't apply for Graveney as decided that single sex was the best for our DS.

As regards the grammars, I wouldn't worry about 'geeky' or not. All the kids who go to the grammars will have some level of academic ambition, and families who place an emphasis on academics as well. As with all teenagers, some will be 'geeky', some will be less so. At WCGS there are plenty of sporting opportunities (although the focus is on rugby and cricket rather than football). The pastoral care is an important part of the school (they have lessons on wellbeing and good communication with the parents about pastoral matters). I'd say there is equal emphasis on humanities and arts subjects as STEM (although more children tend to specialise in the STEM subjects).

Honestly, don't try to second guess whether you have a place, just fill in the CAF with your genuine order of preference.

Does your son have any preference?

How does he feel about the journeys?

Does he have a preference for single sex or co-Ed?

Dulwich to Wilson's sounds potentially pretty brutal to me, unless you happen to live really close to your station. If you were desperate to go there I suppose you could move as a family.

A boy who's 'passed' for all three of the Sutton grammars will almost certainly end up being offered at least one of them but it's not certain and definitely not certain which one(s) it wil be. 254 in the Graveney VR/NVR tests, unless on a 'bad day', might arguably suggest to me that Wilson's could be a bit of a stretch, unless the child is disproportionately good at the writing/longer form maths stuff that's not in the WT but is in the grammars test and which Wilsons places a high weight on.

Check the frequency of the trains for the grammars and what they will do if the train is cancelled