Doing additional GCSEs early - anyone here with experience of this?

I am quoting from the medicine university requirements because another DC (not the DD I mention here who who is doing her Year 11 GCSEs this year, and who emphatically does not want to do medicine) successfully negotiated the medical entrance system (which is super, super, complicated), so I know a fair bit about it.
Here is the link to Oxford medicine which gives you some statistics as to previous applicants - you have to scroll down a bit to see the sections about the GCSEs, but some of the other information might be interesting to you, such as the percentage of applicants that are accepted etc:
www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics
The key bits of information from here are:
The GCSE measure used was a combination of proportion of A grades at GCSE and number of A grades at GCSE (with equal weighting). For shortlisting purposes a grade 8 or 9 is considered equivalent to an A*
...
The mean number of A* at GCSE for all applicants was 8.2; this rose to 10.2 for those shortlisted and 10.2 also for applicants receiving offers.
The mean proportion of A* at GCSE was 0.80; this rose to 0.96 for those shortlisted and was 0.96 also for applicants receiving offers."

As far as I am aware Oxford is the only university that does anything like this (Cambridge pretty much ignores GCSEs, and as mentioned, the other medical schools around the country, at most look at 8-9 GCSEs), so this is specific to if you want to go to Oxford (and possibly Oxford medicine, I don't know how Oxford treats other subjects, but medicine is likely to be one of the most competititve). They do look at number of GCSEs, but they also look at the percentage of GCSEs that are A* (currently 8 and 9, although I could see that changing in the future, they might decide to only look at 9s) out of the total taken.
So while an additional one might give you an advantage (although most who got an offer had 10 or 11) if you didn't get an A* in that extra GCSE, it actually drags you down.

If the second additional GCSE being discussed is music, does that mean she currently attends a junior conservatoire? A couple of years ago I had this very conversation with the head of one such place who said the reason they offer the GCSE is so that students whose schools don't, can still take it. Their preference was for students to take GCSE music at their own school, not least because the more it's taken outside of school, the less demand there is for it in school and less demand is what leads schools to drop it.

GCSE's are just the stepping stone to the next qualification. As a recuiter myself I would only expect to see them on CV's for new graduate positions.
Language skills are a stand out though - fluent in Mandarin is a great CV line (as long as the candidate really has that skill.

I don't believe 11, 12 or 13 GCSE's will make a scrap of difference in terms of university entrance. DS2 has just (yesterday ) received his offer from Oxford for next year. His 11 GCSE's were clearly adequate.

Rather than using her free time to do an extra gcse, why not find something she’s passionate about and do that ? What are her interests ? Ie if art, could she volunteer at a gallery or auction house ? Just more GCSEs isn’t standout. Standout is doing something a bit different.

But lucky girl having supportive parents, and that you seem to balance each other

@stuckinaGSCEloop
Thanks !
Also to do add that the GCSEs MFL taken early were all organised by the school, including weekly lessons and exam sittings, I was just asked to agree to it and pay the exam fees!
And on the 11x GCSEs taken in one bulk 11 in Year 11 it includes Further Maths (taught during the normal Maths lessons, normal maths being slightly accelerated for DC’s set to make time for FM) and also include triple science taken by about 2/3 of the cohort. So despite having their 12x GCSEs, it all feels rather contained to the school (and managed by them) and they have also made it really clear that quality is better than quantity so will direct DC to double science over triple science to achieve higher grades.

Good luck!

My DD did a GCSE early - but that was because when she first toured the high school she ended up at in Year 5, they did photography GCSE and she absolutely loved the work on display and probably chose the school for that reason .... And then they dropped it from the options, so by the time she got to Year 8 she could only take fine art (which she didn't want to do) and not photography. So we scurried around and found a photography teacher (teaches it in another school, so was able to submit DD with her pupils at the other school) and she did it after school. And we decided it was better to do it in Years 9 & 10 because she would still be taking a full load in her school (9 or 10, depending on whether she does triple science), and we were worried about the workload.
But we only did it out of school for the same reason you are doing the Mandarin, ie not offered in school, and because DD really wanted to do it (she would have happily dropped any of her GCSEs in school if the school would have let her do it). She did very well in it, despite not taking it in school, but then she was very motivated and it is very different to any other subject she is taking in school - and she felt she learnt a lot (and indeed somebody we know is paying her a small amount in a few weeks to take some photos at a party and she is wondering if it might turn into a career, or at least a side hustle - so being able to say she has a very good grade in GCSE photography at least tells people she knows something about it).
I wouldn't do it just to increase the numbers of GCSEs - I can't see the point. Even applying for medicine, where a lot of the medical schools do look at GCSEs, it is all about the best eight or nine, additional optional ones are ignored (and for Oxford, which is the only place that does seem to look at how many, you pay a bigger penalty if the grades in any are not the top grades, than if you didn't take them at all, so yin fact it is a risk, for Oxford, if you take too many, especially a year early when you are not as mature as the other candidates you are competing against for those limited top grades).

I might even see 12 GCSEs as a negative - particularly if some are sat outside school. (And I say that as someone with 11.)

To me it says “kid with ridiculously pushy parent”.

Um no, I'm the opposite of pushy, just happen to have an over - achieving, perfectionist child (which in no way comes from me, or her father), it's a bit of a worry sometimes often. And a school which should have known better than to encourage it. I've put my foot down over similar A level excesses.

Is it really a big asset having 12 GCSEs?

No, this is nuts.
I'm very glad DC school does 1 or 2 early each yr, so the kids get familiar with GCSEs, demystify, but there's not great advantage going > 9/10.

Most Unis only consider the 8 best grades. Don't care beyond that.

My eldest did his first GCSE in Y6 (and got an A*) in a second language. Absolutely no one has looked at it favourably or even mentioned it so I doubt it has stood out at all!

[quote stuckinaGSCEloop]@titchy Well, he reckons 12 is a standout number and why wouldn't she if she can etc But I also find it really hard to believe it'll make a difference. Re GCSE I guess it's just an independent marker rather than 'self-certifying' so to speak.[/quote]
I recruit graduates honestly most them don't even list their A-levels let alone their GCSEs beyond that they have Maths and English. I care about their degree, have they had a job. And do they have skills that are applicable to my role.

Do they have outside interests which will ensure they have good work life balance?
I couldn't tell you how many GCSEs my grad who started last month has.

I have two DCs with 12x GCSEs each which include a MFL taken early, and then 11x in year 11. The eldest got all 9s.
I think the advantage of doing one early, IF ready, is to have gone through the process once before the bulk of the core subjects, so it sets them up in a good stead to an extent and gives a certain edge, if only because they have bagged a good grade and know they can do it.
I wouldn’t force your daughter to go against what she wants as it may be all counter-productive at the end.

Ok – so GCSEs – there is no advantage to taking 12 rather than 9 or 10, not for university nor for future employers. I cannot believe any employer seriously looks even at number and grades of GCSEs, let alone when they were taken. Does your DH really do this?

I have 11 very good O levels (old) but since I also have a degree and a post-graduate qualification, I only mention them to clarify that I have maths and English (needed for some roles). They were actually taken at four different time points for various reasons, but that’s hardly something I would boast about.

In fact today schools are not encouraged to have students sit exams early, as others have noted, as it may lead to poorer grades and also universities like to see that a student has tackled a large load of exams at once.

So on that one I would say your DH is wrong. Re the music specifically – I would imagine it would be beneficial to your DD to take that on in a GCSE group, where there will be support and a chance to perform as part of an ensemble. That was a big thing for my DD when she did music GCSE.

Now, native speakers and exams. I could write a book. I won’t tho.

Let me just say that I have seen a number of students fall foul of their high expectations (especially at A level to be fair, but certainly possible at GCSE). I have conducted speaking exams for native speakers and because they have not been trained (I infer) in exam technique, they haven’t scored as highly as they might have done – for example, no one has told them to develop (in a rather artificial way) their answers. What is the weather like? “It’s sunny today.” OK but to gain the highest mark you really need to go on to say “but yesterday it was raining and that was a shame as I wanted to go for a walk and I couldn’t. I really like the hot weather because I enjoy sunbathing.” This can be an issue in writing and speaking, as can slang or carelessness about (for example) German word order, which is quite common among German speakers.

Could well be that none of this will apply to your DD OP, but I would make very sure she is clear on what she needs to do to do well in the exam by studying spec and mark schemes. What board is she likely to do, do you know?

Sorry for the essay!

Years ago lots of DC got piles of gcse equivalents by taking BTecs. 16 could be achieved. Numbers mean very little. It’s more about academic subjects and grades and no more than 10! No one needs more than 10. Take the Mandarin in y12 if she’s still interested maybe?

Having more than 10 GCSEs is of no particular benefit though having a proven qualification in a language is useful.

Part of the academic rigour of GCSEs is taking lots at the same time so universities tend to only look at those taken over a 24 months period eg taken a maximum of 2 years early, this would full inside this window.

Do make sure she has time to be a teenagers because there's more to life than studying

I often sit as an expert on recruitment panels. I'm not that interested in gcses (or at all), I'm not even that interested in qualifications (they become much of a muchness), I'm more interested in the person and their ideas - original thought etc.

Dd is in her first year of Uni - she's at a top 3. They only offer blanket grades (3As A level)- they want to know who you are and your thinking via your personal statement - it's about what you are reading and thinking about outside of your exam syllabus.

Your DH probably still has candidates who did their GCSEs before the switch to linear ones (the ones on the new spec are only just starting to graduate)

His views on what makes an 'outstanding' candidate are just plain wrong. The new normal is between 8 and 10 in one sitting.

Exceptions are:
a) those taking further additional maths - who might either take maths in year 10 and add/further maths in year 11, or do them all in year 11 (some candidates therefore doing 11)
b) languages not taught in school, where there can be a preference to sit the extra one in year 10 so it's out of the way before tha main sitting. You do need proper exam prep for this - just speaking well is not enough

DD2/3's school only lets them do 8 GCSES (9 if they end up doing science trilogy). They do Maths, English (2), Science (2/3), then 3 options, one of which has to be either History, Geography, Spanish or French.

I might even see 12 GCSEs as a negative - particularly if some are sat outside school. (And I say that as someone with 11.)

To me it says “kid with ridiculously pushy parent”. I met quite a few of them at Cambridge. (Including one bloke with 8(!) A levels.) It often went very wrong once the parent was not standing over them forcing them to work. I’d much rather have a self-motivator with 8 or 9 GCSEs.

My son did gcse RE in Y10 and in thought it was great as it was a practice run on a gcse. There know roughly what it takes to do one (let alone 10!).

I would take it in Y10. There's not that much pressure end of Y10 and it's an extra year to learn the curriculum. I'm not clear if she's just been casually keeping up with Mandarin or studying the curriculum but if she doesn't know the curriculum is spend time on that. Music GCSE is way more than playing an instrument.

I did 2 GCSEs when I was in year 10. No one has ever remarked on it and it has given me zero advantage in life