Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Unflip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Unflip

1 2 3

Original poster

Worried ds is going to be kicked out of Y12. If he is, what happens next...?

58 replies

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:34

DS1 started sixth form in September. He did not work for his GCSEs, but did quite well. Obviously things were difficult for him - as they were for all of them - during the lockdowns, he certainly struggled with online learning. Once school opened again, he got into quite a lot of trouble in year 11 for his consistent lateness, which is not at all excusable given we live five minutes walk from the school, but overall, he seemed happier being at school than he had with the home learning.

Anyway, I had hoped that sixth form would provoke a bit of a change in his behaviour/attitude, that it would be a fresh start. This has not been the case. Within two weeks, I had been contacted by the head of sixth form saying they were worried about his lack of engagement (not handing in homework, consistently being late, sometimes very late, being disrespectful to teachers). I talked to him, explained that I thought the logical conclusion of him carrying on like this would be him being kicked out, he said he would change. He hasn't. He's been late almost every day (despite us getting him up in good time, taking him coffee, cajoling him etc). It's almost as if he is doing it on purpose (I've suggested this to him and he says not, but I think he must be). He has not handed in several homeworks (again, we have asked him about it again and again and he says he has done it).

I don't know what to do. He's nearly 17, it's very difficult to make him do anything. I've tried being very on his case and getting off his case and everything in-between. Does anyone know what can/might happen in this kind of situation (how long will a school put up with someone not turning up on time, for example?). And if the worst happens, is it a case of having to find an alternative, given he has to be in education until he is 18?

Sorry for long post.

OP posts:

ChloeCrocodile · 05/10/2021 16:02

I know that this (sometimes, often, I am not sure) involves smoking weed, which does worry me.

This could explain his apathy. It annoys me that weed is often seen as pretty harmless but it can absolutely destroy the motivation of an adolescent. www.talktofrank.com/drug/cannabis#the-risks

Can you stop giving him money? If he is choosing not to study he can get a job to pay for the things he wants.

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 16:00

@Anselve that's really interesting - my son really did not do well with lockdown and remote learning "it feels like I'm getting worse!" He did struggle with revision and his exams, but got the grades he needed to go to his insurance, but has been really worried about starting university on the back foot and is very disappointed. I hope he does OK 😕. He is apparently writing lists and spreadsheets to organise himself, but as he admits a lot of it is intentions at the moment...

I am supportive at a distance, and have suggested ADHD questionnaires (he definitely has traits) but I am glad he is living out of the house and not under his duvet on his laptop all day and I'm not feeling like I have to poke him into action every day. I think it might help him being away from the safety net of home (but it is still here, obviously!)

Good luck to both of your sons, @newdocket and Anselve (and mine!)

BananaPB · 05/10/2021 16:00

My son did the same. I somehow managed to drag out the "extra chances" until the end of year 13 but I think it's unusual to be able to do that. He scraped through y13 and instead of uni went into full time employment at the company where he worked part-time. Strangely he is very motivated when it comes to in work training. He's done an apprenticeship, happily takes up extra qualifications that the company offers and at age 20 earns £30k and very happy. He has a proper career path that could lead to six figure sums in future.

In retrospect I should have looked into apprenticeships or had him work a year so he might develop some ideas about what to do. Y12 and y13 was a massive waste of time even though he ended up with level 3 qualifications.

Anselve · 05/10/2021 15:41

The refusing school was really weird and very unlike him - very laidback, just gets on with things, likes his friends, doesn’t love being at school but never complained about it either. It just seemed weird.

His younger siblings are autistic and it really has given me a crash course in difficult behaviour when the person is actually quite lovely. I never leap to the conclusion that one of my kids is just difficult - there is always something driving it and once you know what it is you can help them solve it.

Hellocatshome · 05/10/2021 15:35

Would he prefer college? I didnt like 6th form as it felt like you were still at school (which you were) whereas college felt more like the next step and you were more responsible for your own learning. Unless he ultimately wany to go to University then A levels aren't necessary. What does he want to do for a job? Would it be better to find a suitable college course or apprenticeship?

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:34

Anselve, that's really interesting, glad to hear your DS is feeling more like his old self again. Can I ask how you made the leap from thinking he was being difficult to understanding that he was anxious?

OP posts:

Starlightstarbright1 · 05/10/2021 15:31

My ds is year 10 but i am very clear. His job os to be a school boy. If he doesn't do that i don't pay pocket money.

I also make hin sit down come up with a plan when its not working.

I have also been very clear once he leaves education i stop bankrolling his life. So he needs to be in a position to support his lifestyle.

My Ds also only lives 10 minutes away from school and started getting lates. We sat down and talked about what time he needs to leave and what time he needs to start getting shoes on.

He is younger and has adhd but the days i have left for work i set Alexa with a timer.

Anselve · 05/10/2021 15:31

DS1 would like to know if he has attention problems - is it my attention or am I just lazy, Mum?

Anselve · 05/10/2021 15:29

Newdocket and smallassassin

DS1 at similar stage - did well at GCSEs but came out of lockdown having lost all momentum. I’ve not organised him logistically since about year 7 so when he stuffed up Year 12 and did badly in his mocks it was a big surprise. He was refusing to go to school and I thought he was being difficult but actually he was hugely anxious. It was like his brain wasn’t working the way it always had and he didn’t know what to do.

There is ADHD in our family and his siblings have it. It affects them a lot and DS1 was the one who never had any problems.

So we got him tutors over summer and he pulled his marks right up and he was cooperative and willing because he does want to do well. But I think lockdown and the step up to A levels has shown that he’s reached a ceiling attention wise and we need to look into that further.

Punishing him would have been counter productive. He’s almost an adult and he couldn’t articulate what was going on. He’s having CBT for anxiety and keeping on with the tutors as he likes that one to one and I feel like he’s back to his old self.

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:25

*prioritises

OP posts:

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:24

He's very happy with his friends. He priorities spending time with them over everything else. I know that this (sometimes, often, I am not sure) involves smoking weed, which does worry me.

I think part of the issue might be lack of interest in some of the subjects he is doing (he really loves one and does light up when he talks about it) but is ambivalent about the rest. He does struggle with organisation and I have witnessed him finding it really difficult to get started on things.

The teacher who referred him for the SEN assessment a couple of years back remarked that he wasn't sure whether he might have some kind of attentional issue or whether he is just lazy. Which I thought was a bit blunt, but possibly on the money.

OP posts:

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 15:19

He's not a five year old! I can't see that kind of strategy working for any teenager, let alone an intelligent one. From what the OP says, I'm sure he knows rationally what needs to happen, he's having trouble motivating himself to get on with it. Taking away his stuff won't magically solve the problem for any of them!

SMabbutt · 05/10/2021 15:12

Taking his phone etc away isn't about punishing him into being an adult. If he doesn't work, be it school or a job, he won't have the means to have any luxury stuff. If these things are being funded by his parents on the understanding he is studying so the are willing to subsidise him. If he won't study or work there's no reason for anyone to pay for these things for him. It's just about natural consequences for his actions and lack of responsibility

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 15:09

@newdocket It's something I've been reading about for my son, who had trouble getting himself going for A levels, revising, doing practice, even though it was what he wanted to be doing - finding it hard to get started, not doing what you know you should be doing, getting distracted. I wonder about it for myself too! (Reading on Mumsnet instead of getting on with my staff reports...)

LIZS · 05/10/2021 15:08

Is it the subjects, style of teaching, friendship group etc? If he was disillusioned before gcses it is unlikely to change unless he moves. He could restart y12 next year, maybe at a college doing btec/t levels instead if he might be better suited to those. If he drops out you will lose child benefit unless he is still in education or training.

heyitsA · 05/10/2021 15:01

I have seen some people say let him fail, please don't!! All this will do is lower his self esteem and give him less options in the future!
I am saying this from experience.

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:01

I don't know what is really going on but I am aware that something must be. That's what I mean about it kind of being 'on purpose'. He is making a choice - conscious or not - not to get to school on time and not to do his work. I do feel that if I could get to the bottom of this, it would really help.

Re ADHD, well yes, possibly. This is something I have wondered about, and the school did assess him a couple of years back, concluding he had minor issues with working memory, on the borderline, but enough to get him 25% extra exam time. What makes you ask that question, out of interest?

OP posts:

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 14:59

But I also agree, maybe let him fail, he learns what is really important to him and it isn't the end of the world. I ended up with only 2 A levels (having started 4!) and dropping out of uni after a year. Things turned out well in the end after a couple of years of dead end jobs before I found my way. There's always another step forward.

heyitsA · 05/10/2021 14:59

Maybe sixth form isn't for him? It's hard to be enthusiastic and hard working in something that you don't enjoy, and at his age he probably doesn't see the seriousness of what will happen if he carries on this way. When I was that age I was lazy and even with my parents and teachers constantly telling me how important education is, I didn't listen and now I definitely regret messing up back then!
It could be worth looking into college or apprenticeships, then he can chose one subject that he is interested in and that could motivate him into working harder, if he done well at GCSE without trying he clearly is smart, he just needs to do something with it!

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 14:55

@TreeTurningYellow

Take or restrict the things that matter, phone, xbox/playstation etc. These are privileges not rights.

What's that going to achieve? You can't punish a young adult into engaging.

OP, what is really going on? Are A levels really what he wants to do? What's stopping him from going in on time? Is something worrying him? Sometimes it's hard when you've been used to everything being easy to find that things have ramped up a notch. I found O levels easy, and everyone thought I should be good at academic stuff as I was really clever, but it really isn't for me. Work, where I am achieving something concrete and "real" is much better for me.

Is there any possibility that he has ADHD?

VanCleefArpels · 05/10/2021 14:54

You could present the nuclear option:

If he drops out and doesn’t engage with any other educational route or work then he’s on his own. This means, in practice, claiming benefits (in order to pay for phone, spends etc) , cooking his own meals, doing his own laundry etc. If he feels he doesn’t need any more education ask him to do a job search based on having only GCSE and see what (little) comes up. Stress the absolute limitations he will face in his life. Time due tough love!!

TeenMinusTests · 05/10/2021 14:53

He is meant to be in education for the next 2 years, but if he isn't no one will really care (though you should inform child benefit and that would stop).
have conversations with him re:

if he is kicked out what will he do
what support will you continue to provide (eg maybe you would provide bed and board, but not phone contract, clothes, any other money etc)

It is getting too late for him to switch to a BTEC this year as he's missed 3 weeks already, but that could be an option for next Sept (nd he could do 2 years). You may find somewhere that would take him.

Is he doing A levels because that's what everyone does. Did you & he consciously look at other options before?

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:51

Sorry to hear you are going through something similar Maverick. I think the only way to learn is the hard way unfortunately. What's extra galling is that DS has such an arrogant attitude, he thinks he knows EVERYTHING, when in fact he is hopelessly naive!

OP posts:

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:49

Thanks. I take your point Pineapple about not parenting the getting up, I suppose I'm doing it in part to satisfy myself that I tried.

There's absolutely no way he is going to sit around here doing nothing; this is my biggest fear. I think I need to sit him down and spell it out in the most concrete of terms.

OP posts:

Maverick197 · 05/10/2021 14:48

This sounds like my DS. He did the bare minimum during year 10 and 11, but managed to do OK in his GCSEs. He was all enthusiastic during the first weeks of Sixth Form, but has now fallen into his bad habits of being late and not handing in homework. It doesn't help that he has picked subject that require quite a lot of essay writing. I think my DS would have been better off doing an apprenticeship, but he wants to do what all his friends are doing which is A-levels. I am at my wits end. He doesn't listen to me and my DH at all anymore. Part of me thinks that a threat from the school to kick him out might straighten him out, I don't think they will put up with 2 years of this. DS will have to learn the hard way and as a parent it's painful to watch, but they need to learn that their actions have consequences.
Sorry I don't have any advise, just wanted to say that you are not alone!

Unflip

1 2 3