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Original poster

Who gets final say over secondary school preference?

36 replies

longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 10:18

So my dd and I have come up with our shortlist of 3 schools together taking into account each other's criteria (hers mainly distance and feel, mine mainly performance and safety). When it comes to the order of preference, her first choice would probably be my third.

Her reason for preference is her bff is likely to go there and it's the nearest (though they're all just about walkable or one bus, we've ruled out anything further away and they're all decent schools - good or outstanding ofsted, between 0.4 and 0.8 progress 8 and 0.49 and 0.59 attainment 8). Hers has the lowest scores of the three. It is, though, the only one we are guaranteed to get a place at so I certainly don't want to rubbish it as an option in her eyes, and I'm sure it would be fine.

Do I put down her preference first, knowing we will definitely get it and be ruled out of consideration for the other 2, or do I try to talk her into putting the others ahead of it? Or, third option, nod and smile at her preferred option but put it down as third preference, knowing that it's extremely unlikely we'd be offered one of the others on offer day and defer the conversation to if and when we get offered a waiting list place? Latter feels sensible but a bit of a betrayal.

I suppose what I'm asking is what weight did you put on your child's primary friendships in making a secondary school choice? Dd has struggled with friendships a bit in the past and is actively looking to make more friends in secondary. Part of me thinks it could be a mistake having one good friend in her new school as she might not dive into making other new friends, and she could still see current bff out of school but on the other hand I don't want that backfiring and her ending up with no good friends at school at all, or her being scared all year about the prospect of secondary school, as she's currently quite positive about it.

I think I'm leaning towards letting her have final say but is that silly?

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Stokey · 04/10/2021 15:47

I would say that let alone in Y7, friendships change over the course of Y6. We ended up putting a grammar school first - late exams last year so no way of knowing if she would get a place -, my choice of local girls school second ,& school where BFFs were going 3rd. We were offered or second choice and over the course of the year, she became closer to one of the girls who was going there. They all mature at such different rates at this age, and a couple of her old friends were getting more interested in boys which DD definitely wasn't. By the time summer came, she was offered a place at school 1 where she know no-one but was fine to take it, as I think she could see how her original friendships groups were fracturing anyway with everyone going separate ways. It sounds like your DD may be in a similar situation, particularly if some are going to private or moving away.

Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 15:42

Thanks Lanthanum. Useful perspective!

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lanthanum · 04/10/2021 15:01

I used to be a year 7/8 form tutor, and girls' friendships were a nightmare in the second half of year 7. The school's policy was that they should be with their primary school friends. By halfway through the year, friendships would be beginning to shift, and when someone had a new best friend, their old one would be distraught.
So you might want to talk to your daughter about the fact that most people make new friends at secondary, and although it's great to have her friend there at the start, how would she feel if her friend makes a new friend?

(Some secondaries aren't so keen to keep best friends together., but most would make sure that if there are only two/three from the same school, they are together.)

On the other hand, if she's nervous overall it might be good to be sure that there will be at least someone else she knows.

Don't knock the proximity argument.

If the sixth form might close because it's small, then it may be that relatively few teachers were actually teaching sixth form, and so most will be unaffacted by that. It's perhaps more likely that people leave because they don't like the new head's style, although a good head making changes would find ways to keep staff on board. If I was going to an open evening, I think I'd be asking staff/pupils what changes there have been since the new head, and trying to read between the lines to work out whether staff are happy or not!

SummerHouse · 04/10/2021 14:54

Have you spoken to your head teacher. Mine was brilliant. I rang him as we decided to appeal an offer but he absolutely reassured me about our offered place and gave me so much advice about an appeal.

I would never had thought to speak to him about a dilemma like your but I have no doubt he would have helped. Alternatively her class teacher?

On the dilemma itself, I would let her choose but advise all you like. My DS was like a different boy when he got his place at the school he wanted. It went from dread and fear to excitement and positivity. I think especially important for your DD to be in the right headspace if she has struggled with friendships. Then the good pastoral care is also an influencer.

It's really hard! Good luck.

Stripyhoglets · 04/10/2021 14:44

We placed alot of weight on where dd would be happy as she already had freinds going there. She's had school related anxiety previously so getting her over the threshold was the main aim. She made alot of new freinds when there but helped the pre-transition nerves knowing she'd know people.

Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 14:42

I'm reassured by everyone thinking the scores sound good/much of a muchness. Her preference school is under-subscribed and her classmates are leaving the area/going private/jumping through hoops to get into selective schools far away, which does make me wobble a bit but as far as I can see they're all decent options.

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Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 14:39

I think it's more likely they'd take pity on me and squeeze me in if we are holding an offer for one school and they ring up to say we are now being offered a waiting list place for the other. And I really do think that unless something very weird happens (which I can't rule our because of covid meaning some people have left london but didn't have a big impact last year) that we'll be offered her preference school on offer day and stay on the waiting list for the others.

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Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 14:36

@PennyWus

Hi this is a very familiar dilemma. I think you are right to push your agenda - you have a perspective that a 10 y.o. or 11 y o. cannot have. My DD was impressed by every secondary school she saw!

If your DD hasnt been able to see your first choice this is a HUGE problem I think, and makes the decision-making skewed. Call the school and explain you desperately want to bring DD for a quick look round the school, can it be arranged please?
Most secondary schools will at least try to squeeze you in, if you agree to be flexible timing-wise.

I could try. Some schools haven't had open days at all this year and others have got big waiting lists for the limited tours they're offering. It's been a massive obstacle - I had intended to generate this shortlist last year or even start to look around in y4 but neither was an option.
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TeacupDrama · 04/10/2021 14:11

Even if her BFF is going she may not be in same class so only see her at breaks this happened to my DD she is with one girl from her old primary class but they seemed to split up BFF and only say you will be with at least one child from your previous class in primary provided you aren't the only child from that school

PennyWus · 04/10/2021 14:04

Hi this is a very familiar dilemma. I think you are right to push your agenda - you have a perspective that a 10 y.o. or 11 y o. cannot have. My DD was impressed by every secondary school she saw!

If your DD hasnt been able to see your first choice this is a HUGE problem I think, and makes the decision-making skewed. Call the school and explain you desperately want to bring DD for a quick look round the school, can it be arranged please?
Most secondary schools will at least try to squeeze you in, if you agree to be flexible timing-wise.

Neighneigh · 04/10/2021 13:30

Have you sat down together and looked at the GCSE options? This was the deciding factor for us. A lot of schools only offer one out of geography or history (the school DS has just started does both), they may only offer one foreign language, and actually a lot of good grades at our nearest school were for btecs not full GCSEs. While I know btecs are great for some, we didn't really want the vocational route. So do have a look at the detail rather than the headline scores. The two schools we chose between on paper looked very similar but underneath offered very different types of education

KeyErro · 04/10/2021 13:20

In this situation I'd ignore the progress scores, especially as performance will have been both volatile and difficult to chart recently.
If the school she favours is good enough, within easy travel distance, has strong pastoral care and you're very likely to get a place, I'd put that as the first choice.

Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 13:01

Thanks all. I'll have an open minded chat with her about the pros and cons. Hopefully she'll trust me on it as I have ruled out the school she wasn't keen on. We can view 2 of the schools this week but my first choice one I have viewed but she hasn't seen, and unfortunately can't now. She might be ok with me putting it down as preference though on the basis that the risk of being allocated it is very slim and maybe if they offer us a waiting list place they'd let us view it then. 2nd and third choice more difficult to delay choosing between but I think I'm genuinely open minded between them.

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BaconMassive · 04/10/2021 12:48

I would say that as there's not all that much between the schools to go with her choice because if she feels she is 'encouraged' to go to another school and she doesn't enjoy it then she may look back with resentment on this whole process in the future.

Also schools can change a lot in 5/7 years.

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/10/2021 12:48

Honestly, since all three are close in performance scores, I would let my DD go with her preference. Secondary school is a change in itself and having a best friend there would be invaluable, especially for your DD as you say she struggles to make friends.

I would not worry about sixth form at this time, that is 5yrs away.

HalzTangz · 04/10/2021 12:42

For me I would leave the final say to my daughter as it is her that has to spend the next few years at the school.

However I was also ask her to think once more before you complete the form with her taking into account that friendship group generally change once you start secondary school.
By the end of the first term she is likely to have a new bff.

Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 12:39

@martingrowler

Buy-in is crucial, she needs to go to the school she is most happy to go to. Unless it's awful in which case the parent should override.

Have you been to see the schools? She may be swayed if she likes a different school once she sees it.

Obviously you can do what you like but in my experience pulling rank rarely has a positive outcome.

Thanks. I think this is where my head is at currently. The friendship thing is the only binary choice - the others are all shades of OK, so it feels harsh to "pull rank". On the other hand everyone else's comments are all valid - she probably won't even be in class with her friend. It's less about that, I guess, more about whether she's viewing the school positively from the outset.

That said I started a thread about two of the schools in question and it was unanimously against her preference. Hard to go against the received wisdom.

I'm concerned the 6th form there could close altogether, though it's quite normal here to move at that age - I guess because all the schools are geographically quite close. There are another 3 schools in walking distance I am not putting on my list at all.

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SmithfamilyRobinson · 04/10/2021 12:23

Have you looked at the size and subject range of 6th form. Sounds ages away but an upheaval at 16 is just as hard. Eg. Musically inclined - A level music? Humanities offer a range? Incumbent students often have first dibbs of 6th form places and the other places become available to outsiders who are academically able who are asked for higher grades. Depends on what the arrangements are in your area.

martingrowler · 04/10/2021 12:22

Buy-in is crucial, she needs to go to the school she is most happy to go to. Unless it's awful in which case the parent should override.

Have you been to see the schools? She may be swayed if she likes a different school once she sees it.

Obviously you can do what you like but in my experience pulling rank rarely has a positive outcome.

Peanutsandchilli · 04/10/2021 12:19

None of my 3 high school aged children have maintained close friendships with other children from their primary school. They get split up in different classes and naturally make new friends. I wouldn't let the fact that her best friend will be going, influence you.

BaconMassive · 04/10/2021 12:15

The difference in those progress scores is minimal, same with attainment. I would class them all as the same, which would be well above the national average for progress and attainment.

Biscuits1 · 04/10/2021 12:12

I think she should have the final say but you should work really hard in getting her to consider your options first.

Original poster
longestlurkerever · 04/10/2021 11:54

@Williamshatnershorses

I’d also throw in that you need to consider your child’s capability - some children will do well wherever they go, some might need a more ‘academically performing’ school to chivvy them along whereas for another child the ‘nurturing’ aspect is the most important. Where does your child sit on these criteria?
Thanks - that's a whole separate thread in itself. She's certainly capable of doing very well but kind of on her own terms - she doesn't respond very well to external motivation and I think very pushy/strict would backfire, but I have high aspirations for her generally. Her school report says she's exceeding expectations in maths (though not outstanding or anything). English is complicated as she scored full marks in her end of year assessments for reading comprehension and has a real sense of poetry but her spelling and grammar is all over the place despite knowing it in theory. There's a possibility she has some SEN/neurodiversity but she doesn't have a diagnosis. I briefly explored the "super-selective schools" but in a half-hearted way because the journey would be a pig but she didn't really engage more than the bare minimum with the prep and I dropped it.
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PeonyTime · 04/10/2021 11:45

We gave DS1 the choice.
We had just moved him 3000 miles, to do Y6 in a new school, and apply for secondary.
We were happy with 2 schools, both of which were excellent. One downside to each, and we let DS make the decision on order. We filled places 3 and 4 with our other catchment school, and the other nearest decent school, and crossed our fingers we would get 1 or 2 (we did).

We have just given DS2 the same choice.

If you are happy with all 3 schools, and dont gave big concerns about any of them, why not let DD take control?

Williamshatnershorses · 04/10/2021 11:43

I’d also throw in that you need to consider your child’s capability - some children will do well wherever they go, some might need a more ‘academically performing’ school to chivvy them along whereas for another child the ‘nurturing’ aspect is the most important. Where does your child sit on these criteria?