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Secondary education

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Unwanted School Imposition

186 replies

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 09:47

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 12:24

@Bookmarket

If he looks to be soaring in his other subjects, the school are not going to register him as someone who has just struggled with lockdown learning as his data profile won't show that.
Some things come naturally, others take a little additional concentration.
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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 12:23

@Bookmarket

Is he bothered that he will do combined scienes rather than x3 single? If he's not, is he really likely to put in extra effort outside of school?
He is obviously still a child so a wider perspective is not his at present. He was shocked to be advised with the others of the change and so I think that's percolating down. He knows he has to put in the extra effort and has already begun to do so, since we saw the results for the sciences (individually and collectively) at term's end.
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Bookmarket · 04/10/2021 12:15

If he looks to be soaring in his other subjects, the school are not going to register him as someone who has just struggled with lockdown learning as his data profile won't show that.

BungleandGeorge · 04/10/2021 12:10

You posted about catching up 2 minutes before me so no I didn’t see that. But tbh this is a difficult and packed term as it is, trying to fit in the catch up work on top may do him no favours. He may be able but there’s a limit to how much one person can achieve. And it’s unclear whether he will be able to participate fully in his lessons if the other kids are all ahead of him as so much of science builds on basic principles. How was his attainment in his other subjects? If he was in year 10 I might agree with you but I think this is going to be extremely stressful for him. A 1/2 year out of a 2 year course is a significant amount. There’s also no guarantee that there won’t be more periods of remote learning.

Bookmarket · 04/10/2021 12:07

Will his current school allow him to do science A levels with combined science?

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 12:06

Honestly, you are not going to get anywhere and it's not worth the time, effort or stress to you.

There will be no detriment to your son and it may even advantage him.

Innocenta · 04/10/2021 12:05

If he doesn't engage well with online learning, why do you think it will be different with these online resources? It seems like you have unreasonable expectations for him, honestly.

poolblue · 04/10/2021 12:03

As an earlier poster has mentioned, doing combined science rather than three separate sciences won't stop him from studying A level chemistry, biology or physics.

There are plenty of law firms who will take your money - business is business after all, but you really need to ask yourself why you are doing this. Just to make a point? To prove the school 'wrong'?
Save your money and don't put yourself or your son through a costly and stressful process.

Bookmarket · 04/10/2021 12:02

Is he bothered that he will do combined scienes rather than x3 single? If he's not, is he really likely to put in extra effort outside of school?

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:58

@Bookmarket

What does your son want to do? What is his view?
He is a quiet boy and does not want to be in the middle of any conflict, so I am shielding him from this but basing my approach on my familiarity with his previously consistently high marks and engagement, pre this unfortunate half-year bump.
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Bookmarket · 04/10/2021 11:54

What does your son want to do? What is his view?

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:54

@BungleandGeorge

Ability doesn’t matter though, it may not be totally his fault but he hasn’t kept up with the work and he isn’t at a standard to take triple science. They have only transferred the ones who are underperforming and most schools make it very clear to those taking triple science that that is what will happen. They either keep up or they have to take combined. There’s generally no extra teaching time for triple science so I’m not sure how you expect to catch your son up? It’s far better he gets a better mark for double science, it could be the difference between getting accepted for a levels and not. Some schools only do double, this isn’t going to hold him back.
I've outlined how he can catch up. His other subject areas are consistently high and we have signed him up to a few online testing and learning platforms, to determine the gaps and to ensure he speeds back to where he needs to be.
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NameChangeNameShange · 04/10/2021 11:51

The thing is the legal action will take too long, and the school is unlikely to accommodate just one kid in a different process (if they keep your DS at 3 sciences, then what do they say to the next parent who feel they have an equal case, and the next...)

Do you have any way to contact other parents? What about your DSs own friendship group? Anyone with a similar issue? Given the timing I suspect you need a few other parents to go talk to school as a group.

But, having said all that if the school thinks it physically can't get a cohort of kids through the full syllabus in the time available then they are right to shift to the combined one - not just for your kid but for all the students.

BungleandGeorge · 04/10/2021 11:47

Ability doesn’t matter though, it may not be totally his fault but he hasn’t kept up with the work and he isn’t at a standard to take triple science. They have only transferred the ones who are underperforming and most schools make it very clear to those taking triple science that that is what will happen. They either keep up or they have to take combined. There’s generally no extra teaching time for triple science so I’m not sure how you expect to catch your son up? It’s far better he gets a better mark for double science, it could be the difference between getting accepted for a levels and not. Some schools only do double, this isn’t going to hold him back.

SometimesRavenSometimesParrot · 04/10/2021 11:47

Honestly I would just let him do combined science and focus on science enrichment outside of school. It’s too late in the day to go the legal route and you’re risking a lot of stress for him.

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:44

We have signed him up to a range of curated online science learning options to benchmark where he is at, so additional teacher workload - for this one pupil - is low to non-existent, imho.

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Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 11:44

Combined science is not easier than single sciences (aka triple) . You just do 2 GCSE's worth of modules rather than 3. Many schools are dropping triple science due to not having time to teach all of the content especially if it's a school where they cover the content in the same amount of time as triple science rather than it being a separate option.

Getting 77 in Combined science is much better preparation for A level than getting 666 for example.

EducatingArti · 04/10/2021 11:41

@Seeline

Maybe, but as I mentioned lots of prev-tests indicate a consistently much higher score.

But if the school physically haven't got time to teach the full syllabus in each science, I don't see what good taking them to court would do? Previous tests would only have tested what has been taught. Unfortunately GCSEs cover the whole syllabus. Teachers won't find out until February which areas the exams will concentrate on - it's probably a bit late by then.

This. It will be about the time available in school to teach the syllabus.
TeenMinusTests · 04/10/2021 11:39

I think you should forget about legal stuff.

Your best bet is to negotiate with the school to stay in the current group until the next round of internal school tests and then if he is still underperforming they can move him then.

However personally I'd be tempted to go with what the school advise. Presumably he is 'behind' where they would expect triple science students to be right now and the school is thinking that consolidating combined science syllabus will be more beneficial than trying to learn an additional 50% of content. 8,8 is better than 6,6,6. Furthermore he might not be allowed to do science A level with 6s but would be with 8,8. Def check A level reqs.

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:37

Just received a call from a senior partner in education law. Various options including taking LA to Judicial Review.

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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:36

@Mumoftwoinprimary

Have all children been moved to combined or just those that did badly on the test? If all then even if you can persuade / force the school to enter your son for the separate sciences you may have a problem as they won’t be teaching for the separate sciences.

If just some then presumably you are asking for him to remain in the set that is doing separate even though his score was lower than the others in that set? Was he close to the borderline? Was there a reason that he did badly in this test but wouldn’t in the GCSE? Would school be willing to let him do a retake and let him stay up if he excels in it?

In the end though - the school is right. 9,9 looks so much better (for him!) than 7,7,7.

Hard to know quite how many in the class but a significant number, not all.

Reasons? He doesn't engage so well sat at home at the end of a computer screen.

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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 11:34

@BungleandGeorge

Surely if your son didn’t do well on that last exam it indicates that he’s not where he should be? His ability may be good but his performance wasn’t. So switching to combined science seems a proportionate response. It’s all very late to catch up if he’s in year 11
It's not remotely proportionate if it's not representative of either raw ability or when placed alongside previous exams and tests, it's an outlier.
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Mumoftwoinprimary · 04/10/2021 11:32

Have all children been moved to combined or just those that did badly on the test? If all then even if you can persuade / force the school to enter your son for the separate sciences you may have a problem as they won’t be teaching for the separate sciences.

If just some then presumably you are asking for him to remain in the set that is doing separate even though his score was lower than the others in that set? Was he close to the borderline? Was there a reason that he did badly in this test but wouldn’t in the GCSE? Would school be willing to let him do a retake and let him stay up if he excels in it?

In the end though - the school is right. 9,9 looks so much better (for him!) than 7,7,7.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 04/10/2021 11:27

@SunshineCake1

This makes me cross. My middle childhood to move schools as they wouldn't let them do four A levels. They'd rather they got three A* than four A or a mix. It should be about the student there and then. Not future whatever for the school.
@SunshineCake1 there is no benefit to doing 4 A levels unless the 4th one is further maths usually in conjunction with maths. No university in this country, including Oxbridge, asks for 4 A levels. It is also a funding issue, further maths comes under a different funding hence why some sixth forms offer it.

@LisaRear all schools are about results how can they not be? When choosing a school most parents will look at results. Selective schools try to ensure higher results because they select their students.

BungleandGeorge · 04/10/2021 11:24

Surely if your son didn’t do well on that last exam it indicates that he’s not where he should be? His ability may be good but his performance wasn’t. So switching to combined science seems a proportionate response. It’s all very late to catch up if he’s in year 11