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Unwanted School Imposition

186 replies

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 09:47

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:33

@TeenMinusTests

So probably the situation is something like this.

Your DS has so far been taught most of the combined science syllabus. He has underperformed on tests showing he hasn't grasped/learned this content to a high enough standard.

School has two options

  1. Drop him to combined so he has less new content to learn and can instead spend time consolidating and improving his knowledge of the combined content

  2. Continue with the additional content for triple at the same pace they have been teaching at so far, which your DS for whatever reason hasn't been keeping up with. Limited reviewing of content covered up to now.

With triple there are more topics, but the content of each topic is to the same depth as with combined.
If however he continues to struggle with triple he may be bumped down to foundation, which does have less detail, and is capped at 5s.

Generally, yes. But this is I believe an untrue reflection, both of his knowledge and capabilities, of which he's also been engaging with both over the holidays and while at home to brush up.
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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:30

[quote AnInspectorBores]@LisaRear, you're obviously certain that you know best and have already consulted a lawyer. Many people have taken the trouble to post with advice, but I am finding your replies both arrogant and dismissive. What are you hoping to achieve from this thread?[/quote]
I was looking for some insights and I have found them, I've also found a few hectoring scolds blended in with some haughty proclamations of what I can or can't do.

I thank those who outlined some productive solutions and others whose outlook part complemented my own approach.

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Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:26

And being bumped down to foundation would have a massive detrimental effect on someone wanting to study a science A level.

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:26

@Comefromaway

You do realise that all schools do a different number of GCSE's? The average is 9 but some do 8 and a few do 10.

Have you talked to any Oxbridge admissions tutors recently? Oxford look at overall GCSE performance and would expect mostly 7, 8 and 9's but they are much more interested in A level results. Most RH universities look at either the best 6 or best 8 GCSE results. Some use a scoring system and lower grades at triple science would score lower than higher grades at combined science.

Yes, I have said nothing more than it's a factor and with a different weight in different circumstances. And I'd like him to continue studying, as he has been, just a little higher tempo, to make up the distance.
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PlanDeRaccordement · 04/10/2021 13:26

I agree with prior posters too that legal action would take too long and cause unnecessary stress and conflict with the school. You have to also consider effects on your DS as he will be in that school every day interacting with teachers and staff that will be aware his parents are taking the school to court, because you are asserting he is capable above his actual scores and should have special treatment compared to his peers. To be frank, this will not incentivise the staff to do any extra help or mentoring of him in his studies. You will be sending him to unfriendly territory every day. How incentivised will they be when it comes to writing recommendations for sixth form? You could do a lot of harm to your DS future by getting adversarial with the school instead of working with them.

gogohm · 04/10/2021 13:26

Most students studying a level sciences did combined because many schools only teach combined, he will need the double certificate though. My dd is at a top university and she did double science.

PanelChair · 04/10/2021 13:25

Do have a meeting (or phone call) with the school first. You appear to be approaching this from the standpoint that doing combined science is a detriment, and that’s far from established.

crazycrofter · 04/10/2021 13:24

Like everyone else has said, combined science isn’t easier. There are simply fewer modules (topic areas)covered. But the missing ones are not the ‘harder’ ones otherwise schools presumably wouldn’t allow pupils with combined to progress to A Level.

I’ve also never put actual GCSE subjects on a CV.

BaconMassive · 04/10/2021 13:24

Probably get strong grades whatever route they take this year what with the grade boundary decision taken last week. So use your evidence and push for what you want.

The school will either bend to your will or it won't.

If it doesn't what are your options?

  1. Move schools
  2. Privately enter & tutor
  3. Suck it up.
TeenMinusTests · 04/10/2021 13:23

So probably the situation is something like this.

Your DS has so far been taught most of the combined science syllabus. He has underperformed on tests showing he hasn't grasped/learned this content to a high enough standard.

School has two options

  1. Drop him to combined so he has less new content to learn and can instead spend time consolidating and improving his knowledge of the combined content

  2. Continue with the additional content for triple at the same pace they have been teaching at so far, which your DS for whatever reason hasn't been keeping up with. Limited reviewing of content covered up to now.

With triple there are more topics, but the content of each topic is to the same depth as with combined.
If however he continues to struggle with triple he may be bumped down to foundation, which does have less detail, and is capped at 5s.

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:22

@FWBNC

I really don't think you know what you're talking about, despite trying so very hard to sound well educated & superior.
Supercilious responses are not really a good substitute for stating your case
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titchy · 04/10/2021 13:21

Oxford admissions for instance consider GCSEs alongside As.

And Oxford would rather 2 x 9 than 3 x 7....

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:21

@PanelChair

Your best first step (as others have said) would be to speak to the school, to hear direct from them why they’ve taken this step.

If you’re determined to take legal action, go ahead, but be aware of what it can and can’t achieve. JR (if it goes ahead) will examine whether the school’s decision was reasonable in the legal sense and you might struggle to persuade the court that it wasn’t, if (as you seem to be saying) the decision is based on tests in which your son under-performed. Your legal adviser should be able to assess your chances of success.

That's our intention. To put before them a series of compromise steps and to only utilise a pre-action letter or JR if this fails, preceded by a Pre-Action latter. So we have shown a willingness to compromise.
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W00t · 04/10/2021 13:21

further maths comes under a different funding hence why some sixth forms offer it
@OnTheBenchOfDoom
Are you sure? AFAIAA only ESFA fund A Levels, all subjects. There is additional Maths Premium available, but it applies to Maths A Level, not just Further Maths.

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:20

"There are no GCSE (or equivalent) requirements for entry to Cambridge. GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, but within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were achieved.

Applicants have generally achieved high grades in subjects relevant to their chosen course, and most students who apply have at least four or five 7/8/9s at GCSE

Our research shows that post-16 examination performance is a much better predictor of degree success at Cambridge. "

titchy · 04/10/2021 13:20

That doesn't follow. If the missing science was replaced with another subject then that would be the same overall number. If it wasn't - as in Combined Science - then it would not.

But how would you know what an applicant would have done?

Candidate A has 10 GCSEs including Combined Science. Candidate B has 10 GCSEs including Physics and Chemistry (no Biology). So you discriminate against the first but not the second?

AnInspectorBores · 04/10/2021 13:19

@LisaRear, you're obviously certain that you know best and have already consulted a lawyer. Many people have taken the trouble to post with advice, but I am finding your replies both arrogant and dismissive. What are you hoping to achieve from this thread?

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/10/2021 13:18

Because if I saw combined science on a CV it would cause me to have some initial assumptions.

But that would only happen if he left school after GCSEs? If he’s going to do A levels and not go to university, then A levels would be on CV. If he goes to university, then only his degree(s) will be on CV.

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:18

You do realise that all schools do a different number of GCSE's? The average is 9 but some do 8 and a few do 10.

Have you talked to any Oxbridge admissions tutors recently? Oxford look at overall GCSE performance and would expect mostly 7, 8 and 9's but they are much more interested in A level results. Most RH universities look at either the best 6 or best 8 GCSE results. Some use a scoring system and lower grades at triple science would score lower than higher grades at combined science.

W00t · 04/10/2021 13:17

If it's a selective school,then it's likely they're an academy, in which case they answer to DfE and an LA judicial review would be of no use, surely?

FWIW, I have a Y11 child currently, taking dual science as they didn't want to lose an option choice which is what happens for those opting for triple science in her school. It's a super-selective grammar, and plenty of those choosing to take dual science go on to study science A Levels without difficulty. She's on track for 9-9, and has already been told she'll be welcome to take chemistry and physics A levels.

FWBNC · 04/10/2021 13:17

I really don't think you know what you're talking about, despite trying so very hard to sound well educated & superior.

PanelChair · 04/10/2021 13:15

Your best first step (as others have said) would be to speak to the school, to hear direct from them why they’ve taken this step.

If you’re determined to take legal action, go ahead, but be aware of what it can and can’t achieve. JR (if it goes ahead) will examine whether the school’s decision was reasonable in the legal sense and you might struggle to persuade the court that it wasn’t, if (as you seem to be saying) the decision is based on tests in which your son under-performed. Your legal adviser should be able to assess your chances of success.

TeenMinusTests · 04/10/2021 13:11

8,8 would look better on a CV than 6,6,6 any day of the week, (and for Oxford).

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:09

@titchy

Sorry that comment's got me really annoyed. If you saw a CV with Physics and Chemistry GCSE but no Biology, would you be equally as dismissive? After all the same number of GCSEs has been taken and the same number of modules studied.
That doesn't follow. If the missing science was replaced with another subject then that would be the same overall number. If it wasn't - as in Combined Science - then it would not.
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LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:08

@Comefromaway

If you are an emploer I would suggest that your incorrect assumptions are leading you to be prejudiced against what may be some excellent candidates.

I never swear but I recognise that a well placed expletive can covey a meaning better than anything at time.

You are going to have to either make time, or trust the school's judgment on this one.

I will make time for remedial support, not full time oversight.
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