Page 4 | Unwanted School Imposition

LisaRear · 2021-10-04T08:47:17+00:00

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 14:24

@fdgdfgdfgdfg

Bloody hell I feel sorry for your kid. You're giving him absolutely no agency about his own future at all.

No wonder he's a "quiet" child when his mother is so completely overbearing

Mother knows best?

OP posts:

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 04/10/2021 14:21

Bloody hell I feel sorry for your kid. You're giving him absolutely no agency about his own future at all.

No wonder he's a "quiet" child when his mother is so completely overbearing

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 14:14

@titchy

Are you going to answer my question about the two applicants with the same number of GCSEs properly? Or was your one word answer confirmation that would would discriminate?

My point was that all hirers make decisions about a wide range of issues and to frame it as 'discrimination', the bête noire of the moment is a little silly.

OP posts:

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 14:12

@Nancydrawn

*"Taking the pressure off" = "less work"

Many children are of course going to welcome less study, but this is a 8/9 month period in which, with with some proper scheduling, should not be too onerous when many other subjects are flying along just fine.*

You haven't actually answered my questions, though, OP. Your son is in year 11, not year 7, and he needs to take ownership over his own education if he's going to be successful at any Russell Group school, which will require real independence and self-determination. If you make the decisions without actually letting him have any agency, you're setting him up to fail in his future.

So, I'll repeat: "What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?"

He has a range of options he is considering including various elite universities. His true love is history, but he is at least was until the summer, a very good all-rounder and his life aspirations fluctuate somewhat. I'm not sure about your own fixed ambitions at 15, but we wish him to excel in a wide range of areas so that when he finally comes to make that decision he has a good grounding across the board.

He is determined and able enough and I see no reason why he cannot retest on these subjects soon enough to again fully outline this capability.

OP posts:

titchy · 04/10/2021 14:10

Are you going to answer my question about the two applicants with the same number of GCSEs properly? Or was your one word answer confirmation that would would discriminate?

thing47 · 04/10/2021 14:09

OP, I totally get why the school's attitude has irritated you, it sounds very high-handed and not terribly pupil-focused.

That said, I think you're choosing the wrong hill to die on here. As others have explained double science isn't easier than triple, it's just less content. It in no way diminishes your son's opportunity to take science A levels in the future should he be so inclined. Some very good scientists actually opt for double to enable them to take an extra language, or humanity instead.

Cuck00soup · 04/10/2021 14:08

@BungleandGeorge

I’ve never put my GCSEs on an application form as an adult!

Exactly.

You might include A levels along with your degree for your very first job, but not GCSE.

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 14:07

@Lolojojonesi

I'm a prof at a Russell Group uni, and we have to pick up the emotional damage that overly (pointlessly) competitive parents leave behind. He'll be fine if he goes down this route, and under less pressure. I feel sorry for your son and the school. Contemplating legal action - honestly.

I have to tell you that your experience with those parents is not our approach. We were aware of a dip after getting the reports, we worked gently to bump those results, then because of the general poor year results the school found they had, they made a decision that was based on their interests, not the children's - in my opinion. They are unresponsive to negotiation, to date, and therefore they have narrowed the range of options open to us to do what we feel is best.

OP posts:

Nancydrawn · 04/10/2021 14:07

*"Taking the pressure off" = "less work"

Many children are of course going to welcome less study, but this is a 8/9 month period in which, with with some proper scheduling, should not be too onerous when many other subjects are flying along just fine.*

You haven't actually answered my questions, though, OP. Your son is in year 11, not year 7, and he needs to take ownership over his own education if he's going to be successful at any Russell Group school, which will require real independence and self-determination. If you make the decisions without actually letting him have any agency, you're setting him up to fail in his future.

So, I'll repeat: "What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?"

LeaveYourHatOn · 04/10/2021 14:04

He has had the corrective and now is not the time for a structured retreat

Cannot help with the question at all but just had to say I am loving the OP's posting style.

AFuturisticalSound · 04/10/2021 14:03

Even contemplating legal action over something that in the overall scheme of life is a trivial issue seems madness to me

Either your son will go on to do A levels/degree in a science subject or subjects in which case his GCSEs results are no longer relevant or he will take a non science route in which case his GSCEs in science won't be relevant

I assume you aren't an employer in a science field in which case your approach to CV sifting is going to lose you possible good candidates from the start

Lolojojonesi · 04/10/2021 14:00

I'm a prof at a Russell Group uni, and we have to pick up the emotional damage that overly (pointlessly) competitive parents leave behind. He'll be fine if he goes down this route, and under less pressure. I feel sorry for your son and the school. Contemplating legal action - honestly.

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:59

@Comefromaway

The main purpose of GCSE's (for those who are planning on further study) is entry to the A level/Btec courses of a child's choice. It is the results of those A levels that determine what happens next. If your child wants to do a science A level they need to get the highest possible grade in science GCSE's. It will be to their huge detriment if they get a lower grade in triple science than they would have in double.

Sadly there are some children who found online learning incredibly difficult. My son is one of them. Others, like my daughter relished it. I think everyone on this thread accepts the reason he got behind was due to online learning but the sad fact is that there is now not enough time to catch up so better to work on getting the highest possible grades in double than potentially disastrously (for him) lower grades in triple.

As mentioned now several times, I think he's fully capable of pulling it back and if he does not do so in the next couple of months I would be content for him to so double. He has had the corrective and now is not the time for a structured retreat, but to understand where he dropped a bit, cover and continue.

OP posts:

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:57

@Nancydrawn

OP, I too don't have a really clear idea of where your son is in this picture.

Have you tried sitting down with him and asking? Would be perhaps like to have the pressure taken off him in one area, to allow him to concentrate in those areas where he shines?

What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?

"Taking the pressure off" = "less work"

Many children are of course going to welcome less study, but this is a 8/9 month period in which, with with some proper scheduling, should not be too onerous when many other subjects are flying along just fine.

OP posts:

Nancydrawn · 04/10/2021 13:55

OP, I too don't have a really clear idea of where your son is in this picture.

Have you tried sitting down with him and asking? Would be perhaps like to have the pressure taken off him in one area, to allow him to concentrate in those areas where he shines?

What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:49

The main purpose of GCSE's (for those who are planning on further study) is entry to the A level/Btec courses of a child's choice. It is the results of those A levels that determine what happens next. If your child wants to do a science A level they need to get the highest possible grade in science GCSE's. It will be to their huge detriment if they get a lower grade in triple science than they would have in double.

Sadly there are some children who found online learning incredibly difficult. My son is one of them. Others, like my daughter relished it. I think everyone on this thread accepts the reason he got behind was due to online learning but the sad fact is that there is now not enough time to catch up so better to work on getting the highest possible grades in double than potentially disastrously (for him) lower grades in triple.

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:47

@Doveyouknow

I can't believe you are going to JR a school over this. It's a complete waste of everyone's time and money. As everyone else has said combined science is not easier, you just do less in terms of content (mainly biology for some reason). Your son has missed a lot of schooling due to covid and struggled to engage with online learning. That means he probably does not have time to catch up on the content for the triple (alongside all his other work) and is better doing the double. I did combined science and I can assure you it did not stop me from completing a science degree and PhD at Oxbridge. The reason parents set store by doing triple science is that it is seen as 'academic'. In reality no one else cares.

The hope is that it is not required to JR, but that the school engages with the parents and doesn't deliver diktats which it refuses to discuss, in part because of the poor teaching skills of some of those called to deliver lessons online which they now seek to remedy.

OP posts:

KittyMcKitty · 04/10/2021 13:45

I’ve read through this post and am very clear on what you want OP but what does your son actually want?

As others have said 2 x 9’s is far better then 3 x 6 (or whatever).

I have a child in year 12 studying 3 science A levels. GCSE single science subjects have a massive amount of content. My children are at a selective school and even in non COVID times struggle to get through all the content in time for the exams. Physics in particular seems massive. There is nothing wrong with double science - indeed my dc (still at selective school) is sitting alongside many who have “only” done double and are not disadvantaged.

Your son - like all young people- has suffered a massive disruption to his education over the last two years. It’s monumentally shit but it is what it is. He has gaps in his knowledge both I imagine in content and also understanding and application. Double science may well be the best option for him - you mention he wants to do a science at A level and a poor performance at gcse where he gets a 6 in that science would prevent him from taking the A level.

I would advise that taking legal action against the school over this would be a massive misjudgement on your behalf. Sit down and talk - work towards goals - yes; send legal letters - no - that’s pretty much you trying to bully them into doing what you want which isn’t a great thing to demonstrate to your son and certainly won’t help him with his GCSEs.

Doveyouknow · 04/10/2021 13:42

I can't believe you are going to JR a school over this. It's a complete waste of everyone's time and money. As everyone else has said combined science is not easier, you just do less in terms of content (mainly biology for some reason). Your son has missed a lot of schooling due to covid and struggled to engage with online learning. That means he probably does not have time to catch up on the content for the triple (alongside all his other work) and is better doing the double. I did combined science and I can assure you it did not stop me from completing a science degree and PhD at Oxbridge. The reason parents set store by doing triple science is that it is seen as 'academic'. In reality no one else cares.

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:41

@TeenMinusTests

OP. It isn't the disaster you seem to think.

Ask the school nicely/firmly to let him resit the test / sit another one.
But if they won't or he doesn't do well enough, just let him drop to combined. The lesser amount of content will mean he can revise it (and other subjects) better.

Getting into legal action seems so disproportionate given that
a) doing combined does not prevent him from going on to science A levels, or anything else
b) doing combined will likely lead to higher combined grades than staying with triple would

I am consulting the official complaints process today to enable me to take to the school a series of options as a part of that step. Of course if the one set of lesser results is repeated and shown to be a pattern then I will defer.

Although I would probably just have him keep the knowledge level topped up and reenter privately a year or so hence.

OP posts:

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:38

@Comefromaway

Basically you were looking for affirmation.

I'm sorry but I would be doing a dis-service to both you and your son if I took that approach.

Not affirmation at all. Challenge, other perspectives and perhaps even additional ways to challenge the decision procedurally.

OP posts:

TeenMinusTests · 04/10/2021 13:38

OP.
It isn't the disaster you seem to think.

Ask the school nicely/firmly to let him resit the test / sit another one.
But if they won't or he doesn't do well enough, just let him drop to combined. The lesser amount of content will mean he can revise it (and other subjects) better.

Getting into legal action seems so disproportionate given that
a) doing combined does not prevent him from going on to science A levels, or anything else
b) doing combined will likely lead to higher combined grades than staying with triple would

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:37

@BaconMassive

Probably get strong grades whatever route they take this year what with the grade boundary decision taken last week. So use your evidence and push for what you want.

The school will either bend to your will or it won't.

If it doesn't what are your options?

Move schools
Privately enter & tutor
Suck it up.

Private study and privately enter is one of my leading options, yet will have to consider the implications of this because clearly it will clash with the other GCSEs unless we pull them out of the school last minute.

OP posts:

Original poster

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:34

@titchy

That doesn't follow. If the missing science was replaced with another subject then that would be the same overall number. If it wasn't - as in Combined Science - then it would not.

But how would you know what an applicant would have done?

Candidate A has 10 GCSEs including Combined Science. Candidate B has 10 GCSEs including Physics and Chemistry (no Biology). So you discriminate against the first but not the second?

"Discriminate"...

OP posts:

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:34

Basically you were looking for affirmation.

I'm sorry but I would be doing a dis-service to both you and your son if I took that approach.