Toxicity of high-achieving schools

The reason is simple. Not all schools are actually equal.

As @OneSwallowSummer said
You need solid pastoral care and great teaching without behaviour problems.
The problem is, a school like that isn’t always easy to find…. At least, it’s not where I live.

Schools do not all have great/ rubbish teachers in the same proportion though. There are some schools where a decent HT will be quick to act on underperformance, others where the chances of appointing a replacement are next to zero, and do the rubbish teacher stays, doing disservice to his or her pupils.

Haha SeasonFinale. Seconded.

Incredibly patronising as well as toxic, the unimaginative stereotyping.

This article mirrors my own experience exactly. Thanks OP, very eye opening to see the concrete research.

ps @marytuda, I am afraid that particular poster has some form in this kind of debate. Don't bite.

@marytuda
Sounds like you are a fab mum who has really thought long and hard about your DC's life from a mental health angle rather than a 'results is everything' angle, and you were wise not to succumb to the 11 plus craziness just for the sake of it and I suspect your child is going to turn out a very well rounded, happy, healthy adult. What more could anyone want!

“ it reassured me I had not irrevocably damaged my child’s prospects by declining to prep him through the 11 plus etc and settling instead for a regular decent comp. . “

Well, this is it. People will believe whatever they want to believe or whatever makes them feel better

The fact is, any type of school can be a nightmare, regardless of the pace. As long as they have good friends they’ll be happy anywhere. That’s what I’ve found anyway. Teachers are teachers. All schools have great teachers and those who are not sure great. Kids just take the curriculum as it comes.

I've always thought the next tier down from the top even for a very bright child is a better choice. The pace and pressure is relentless at the top and there's no room to falter. You need solid pastoral care and great teaching without behaviour problems. It's not rocket science. The preoccupation with secondary schools is uniquely British. In most of the world where you go to secondary isn't ever a topic of conversation.

My sister and I both went to a 'High Achieving School'. I would say I am more driven than she is .. however she is quite anxious about everything in life in general and I am more relaxed though more driven..
What about the toxicity of low achieving schools? How does poverty effect people's mental health..
This post seems to be a wealth of stereotyping..

pkim123 - Latymer Upper in Hammersmith has over 1,400 application for around 140 places going into Year 7. It’s very popular as co-ed and there’s not many options for boys at 11 plus in that area.

[quote HighRopes]@pkim123 I suspect it’s grammars like Tiffin that have those ratios. The queues are certainly huge for the stage 1 exam! This year, they’re doing the exams over two days (rather than one day with two sittings) so I suspect the numbers are even higher.[/quote]
@HighRopes you are probably correct. It must be the top grammars, not independent. Also, I know so many people that have ZERO interest in top grammars that use the early test date as a "prep" for other independent schools that they are interested in. Happens constantly. So many gearing up for 3rd September I'm hearing. I know of one with genuine interest, the rest all just going as a trial run.

My friend started self harming when her child was going through the 11plus. He got the top school he wanted but I fear it is going to be too much for him. I wish we had a different system in this country.

@pkim123 I suspect it’s grammars like Tiffin that have those ratios. The queues are certainly huge for the stage 1 exam! This year, they’re doing the exams over two days (rather than one day with two sittings) so I suspect the numbers are even higher.

@mangomania just curious, which independent schools are receiving 10-15 applications per spot? I heard SPGS was no more than 600 applicants for 100 spots. >10:1 seems extraordinarily high. Just curious. Thanks.

OP, In my experience, it’s the 11 plus to get into the schools that’s can be the insane pressure. Schools around here can have ten to 15 applicants for every place, so they’re all sitting at least 5 schools to mitigate the odds. This is a ridiculous malarkey and can bring out the worst in parents. But once they’re in the schools - it’s genuinely not pushy at all. One of the schools mine went to stopped giving grades or marks on the reports because they realised students only looked at the marks - glossing over the feedback from teachers. They wanted it the other way round. I think if you went in many of “these schools” you’d be very surprised. Also around 25% are on bursaries in this school. It’s not the only one. I can only think of two children who had mental health problems and had to leave, sadly. It wasn’t because of the work pressure. They had stuff going on at home. There are a couple of hyper competitive kids, but everyone knows who they are and let’s them get on with it. They know that as long as they’re pretty average, they can come out with all 8/9s so what’s the point of going OTT? My younger one is in a school that you would think is high-pressure and they’re all just chilled, to be perfectly honest. They can easily keep up - otherwise they wouldn’t be there in the first place. To them it’s just a normal school with people of similar to ability them - what else do they know? If you do particularly well in something - fantastic! If you’re in the bottom set for maths or whatever - don’t worry, you’ll still get an 8 or 9. None if them are remotely super-stressed as far as I can see.

Ok but you say how private educated students consider themselves some super elite who expect to dominate top universities with their snooty ways and superiority but then shock horror! Once at university they find they’re outstripped in every way by the state educated students.
These are not only generalisations and stereotypes but also this has been done to death on mn over the years.
Can’t you come up with something a bit more original?

It's odd you can't see you were generalising about parents at high achieving schools; pupils at high achieving schools; parents at state schools; pupils at state schools; how these groups interact with each other.

Ime MN doesn't like broad brush strokes. The demographic is mixed enough to have posters from all those sectors who won't recognise themselves in your stereotypes.
If you had wanted to seriously discuss the issues with parents pushing high achievers, that wouldn't have needed the obnoxiousness.

This article is interesting and sad. It doesn't resonate with me personally. I went to a HAS and loved it, having been bullied at primary school for being a nerd. I was towards the top there though and so didn't feel massive pressure.

I purposely sent my DC to different schools for this reason. Very high achieving DD goes to the school that prides itself on getting the best grades in the city. DD thrives.
This attitude would have sent DS into a spiral of anxiety and depression, despite being a high achiever himself, the expectations would stress him out. He chose the school whose mantra was "helping you to become who you want to be" "helping you to be the best you" type things.
I think a lot of it is personality and being predisposed to such illnesses.

@ActonSquirrel you are right. I apologize. I should not make generalizations like that. Again, very sorry.

They know there are ‘posh’ schools with pupils who ‘outclass’ them on every social and academic front, and they know very well these are the students who will dominate the scene at Oxbridge etc

I wondered how long it would be before you started bringing ‘posh’ into it.

So many generalisations here.

Cambridge graduate can't look someone in the eye and has no people skills . It's all because they're a Cambridge graduate right???

One of my colleagues doesn't know where to look when talking to most people. He is a nervous / anxious and shy person.

High achievers have poor mental health. Where are all these studies about the low achievers, with little to no qualifications, poor paid work and struggling for money: their mental health is stellar?!

Such sweeping generalisations made all around.