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Original poster

11 plus support thread

208 replies

user153876909 · 21/08/2021 21:19

Hi folks,

My DS is sitting the 11 plus for some of the superselective grammar schools in London next month. We did a mock test today and got the results back, which have put me in a bit of a panic mode. I thought we were almost there with the prep but it seems we still have quite some work to do.

Anyone else have DC taking the 11+ next month and what last minute prep are you doing?

OP posts:
Original poster
user153876909 · 29/08/2021 21:17

So DS sat a mock exam today which I booked a little while ago but we weren't sure if he was going to go because it's a bit of a trek for us - he came out of it saying it was really tough and he left questions at the end because he didn't have time. So far, with all the GL practise papers we've done at home, timing has never been an issue. I had a look through the paper and it looks pretty tough, many cases where if you haven't learnt a particular 'idiom' or 'proverb' you'll have lost a mark. SO all in all, he thinks he's done pretty badly in it.

Gahhh - I'm feeling pretty dejected and like the whole 11+ thing is just not going to work out for us. We started late (during Yr 5) and he had to be taught much of the Maths because so much hadn't been covered in his state school (which didn't have any lockdown provision for much of the year) so it's been an uphill climb. I feel like we just haven't done enough. Has anyone else whose done mock exams felt this way ? I actually only wanted him to sit it to become familiar with the exam environment so he's not so nervous on the day and had no intention of taking the results seriously - but now I do Blush

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louisejxxx · 26/08/2021 20:44

That’s great - I never hear a bad word said about AA, but we are nowhere near catchment for it so unfortunately it wasn’t worth putting it down on our form.

It’s funny you say that about KES because I know a few parents who also hated it…I think it’s very much a case of you’re either a Kes boy or you aren’t. We ultimately ruled it out because I was concerned that ds didn’t necessarily fit the mould they’re after.

pkim123 · 26/08/2021 19:27

@annaseal

What is Dexamfetamine?? Hmm did a google search and found a very complicated definition. Seems like something that affects Central Nervous System? Shock Poor kids 😔
It is a drug normally prescribed for treating ADHD. However, it is often also used as a stimulant to improve cognitive performance. Personally, using any drug other than it's true intended purpose seems foolish to me. But then again, London parents will do anything to help the little ones getting into the "right" school.
Original poster
user153876909 · 26/08/2021 18:01

yes I read the Shakespeare bit, isn't that KS3 material(!) - my DS's cousin is 14 and doing that at secondary school right now. How is it fair to test them on Shakespeare - that would certainly not be testing their innate ability but whether they've been exposed to similar texts before.

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annaseal · 26/08/2021 17:18

@user153876909

yes, the amount of text to read and take in and compare and contrast is ridiculous! I lost my focus after a bit and told him to leave it. I told DS if a school really expects 10 yr olds to be able to do a test like this then I'm not sure that's the school I want to send him to!
That is the thing. I saw in one of the groups, children are doing Shakespeare. Apparently one school gave a piece from Macbeth in last years 11 plus. Seriously I would think twice before putting my DC in such schools. 🙄🙄 Complete nuts in the name of 11 plus.
Original poster
user153876909 · 26/08/2021 17:05

yes, the amount of text to read and take in and compare and contrast is ridiculous! I lost my focus after a bit and told him to leave it. I told DS if a school really expects 10 yr olds to be able to do a test like this then I'm not sure that's the school I want to send him to!

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BumbledBee · 26/08/2021 16:43

I think I know the papers you mean and honestly, I think the publishers of these last-minute practice papers have it wrong with the amount of text to read, number of multi-mark questions, and timing.

The makers of the SET are not sadistic Grin and all the children I know who took it have come out of the exam saying they found it easier than the prep and mocks.

Hopefully the new format will favour the naturally bright and well-read rather than the heavily tutored.

Original poster
user153876909 · 26/08/2021 16:33

Thanks all - it's reassuring to know you don't have to be getting well above 90%. I think the problem is they seem to be making the exams harder and harder because the students are tutored and prepped to such perfection and it's becoming more difficult to differentiate the top. I heard that this year or last year 55 students got the top mark in Maths for QE! - that sounds pretty nuts to me!

Also this year for SET they have introduced these comparative text questions which are apparently new format and all these fb groups have been inundated with requests for material to prepare for those. I succumbed to some of that pressure and bought a set of papers just testing the comparative test part (and it wasn't cheap either!). DS is having a go at these now but finding them extremely tough and asking me for explanations of words that I have never encountered - I think I'm going to give up with those, it seems bonkers to test a 10 yr old on material like this and the timing is also ridiculous - I'd be hard pressed to do these myself in that time!

So yes, I think time to step away and continue with our 'little but often' approach, we were doing quite well with that so far until I started frequenting these forums where people seem to live, eat breath, make their living from 11+!

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BumbledBee · 26/08/2021 16:13

If it helps @user153876909, when my DS sat the SET 2 years ago, the percentage needed to pass and be eligible to sit the second exam worked out at around 80% maths, 72% English (and a high mark in one meant they could get a lower in the other).

Obviously this will change each year (and with age standardisation) and it is the standardised mark against the cohort that counts, but I thought it might help to know this anyway.

Once in school, there is still variation in ability, so yes there are some who get 100% or close, but it isn't needed to get a place. In fact, as soon as too many are getting in the 90s they need to make the tests harder still!

annaseal · 26/08/2021 15:25

@user153876909 Please do not worry at all reading about kids who are studying 24/7 ( poor kids). 7 years ago when I was preparing my son for 11 plus, yes there was social media but mostly parents used to stick to 11plusexam forum. Sometimes I found even that stressful when I would see parents boasting kids getting 90% up and also declaring unless such is the case securing 11 plus place would be near impossible. I genuinely thank to god my son got a place in a super selective without external tutoring and only with reasonable prep. This year it is my daughter’s turn and I am flabbergasted by the number of facegroup groups, whatsapp group, telegram chat group, all dedicated to 11 plus and all claiming quintessential to 11 plus success. It is sort of information overload and at times can be over whelming. 😢😢. Now only few weeks before exam, I am sticking to age old tried and tested CGP 10 mins, fptp, bond. Making sure all maths and english basics are clear. Doing few time tested papers of the specific exam board to make sure DD understands the exam format well and create good strategies.

Original poster
user153876909 · 26/08/2021 15:12

I did the same, google searched it and still don't fully understand what it does but read some of the risks of it and it's pretty intense.

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annaseal · 26/08/2021 15:03

What is Dexamfetamine?? Hmm did a google search and found a very complicated definition. Seems like something that affects Central Nervous System? Shock Poor kids 😔

pkim123 · 26/08/2021 11:52

[quote ElvenDreamer]@pkim124 seriously?! Wow, this thread is really opening my eyes, it makes me feel so sad. Essex grammar schools actually say that while various reasonable adjustments may be applied for, extra time is not one of them as if the child needs extra time they are unlikely to cope in the grammar school classroom normally. As to the thought of medicating your child to pass a test 🥺😭[/quote]
I completely agree with you, I feel sad for the children. I also feel sad for the parents who clearly exhibit a high degree of insecurity. I in no way support such 11+ tactics.

ElvenDreamer · 26/08/2021 11:23

@pkim124 seriously?! Wow, this thread is really opening my eyes, it makes me feel so sad. Essex grammar schools actually say that while various reasonable adjustments may be applied for, extra time is not one of them as if the child needs extra time they are unlikely to cope in the grammar school classroom normally. As to the thought of medicating your child to pass a test 🥺😭

pkim123 · 26/08/2021 10:42

@user153876909

Yeh nobody blinked an eye when this parent mentioned doing 6-8 hours a day except for this one person who said she didn’t even do that much revision for her A levels. I’ve been playing it by ear with DS, some days I can tell he’s getting a bit fed up of it so I step back and take my foot off the pedal.
tutoring is only the tip of the iceberg. many parents also help their children in other ways which include:
  1. getting a psychologist's referral letter suggesting the child requires extra time on entrance examinations. this is a very popular option in London
  2. having the child prescribed Dexamfetamine to help them with entrance exams

Again, tutoring is the most basic form of helping a student during the 11+, many parents go much further than that. Good luck.

CoolKitkat · 26/08/2021 08:07

@ElvenDreamer That's what I'm led to believe, but I guess no-one can really know for sure! I imagine it won't disadvantage autumn born children too much, they must end up with a relatively even mix of children born across the year?

It's hard not to get sucked in, I can't believe some of the tutoring fees when I was looking into it! Some people charging £120 per hour (for 1:1), and that's just for one subject!

flyaboat · 25/08/2021 23:59

Yes I know people who do massive over preparation. I know someone who spends over 100 pounds each week in tuition. But you must step away from such talk.

Focus on your child, what time you have, keep your head rational.

Give your child the best chance to pass by making sure you see them as a whole person - they are not a machine.

Make sure you have some realistic schools in the mix if at all possible.

You can only do what you do.

I would say do little bursts of work and often.

Don't give up either. Just keep being positive and ofcourse listen to your child, if he is getting fed back then you must take a break!

Original poster
user153876909 · 25/08/2021 21:46

Yeh nobody blinked an eye when this parent mentioned doing 6-8 hours a day except for this one person who said she didn’t even do that much revision for her A levels. I’ve been playing it by ear with DS, some days I can tell he’s getting a bit fed up of it so I step back and take my foot off the pedal.

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steppemum · 25/08/2021 21:33

I tutor for the 11+, although not in such a competive area as London.

Step away from the facebook groups. Don't believe everything you are told, and take everything with a pinch of salt.

I had a good solid, perfectly capable of passing student 2 years ago who had a friend in his class also preparing. Apparently, he did hours of study and was scoring 90% in all mock tests. It terrified my student and his mum. He failed. No idea why, but all the 90% stuff was probably made up. My student passed.

Remember it is all a rather nasty game for some parents.

BumbledBee · 25/08/2021 21:33

We are doing Sutton Grammars too, and DS did it 2 years ago. Nobody I know has done/is doing anything like that sort of prep. We are doing 3 hours a week in total (with a couple of weeks doing nothing at all) and, obviously no guarantees, but she feels ready.

Yes, some will be getting 95% in their papers, but there are still places for DC that don't. Smile

ElvenDreamer · 25/08/2021 21:28

@user153876909 , 6hrs? wow that's crazy, you definitely should stay away from that sort of talk! I know what you mean about it being relatively easy to get better at the start of the journey then harder to get those last percentages up though.
I think I'm erring on the side of doing a little less at the moment though as others here have said too. Don't want burn out. Also I used to teach in a grammar and the kids that had been tutored within an inch of their lives to pass the test would often then struggle in school and I'd hate to land my child in that position.
@CoolKitkat that's good to know you don't think age adjustment affects the marks that much, rumour round where I am has it making as much as 5% which I sincerely hope is not true.
I think at this stage we're just doing a little light practice on exam strategy as much as anything.

Original poster
user153876909 · 25/08/2021 20:35

We've identified some points of weakness (mainly comprehension in English) but progress has been slow - it feels like we've plateaued. but then it's always much easier to go from 20% to 60% than from 80% to 90% so it's going to be slow going.

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Original poster
user153876909 · 25/08/2021 20:30

We're aiming for QE and the Sutton grammars so all superselectives! gahhh. I think I need to step away from some of the Facebook forums dedicated to 11+ stuff because parents are saying their kid is doing 6 hours a day (like a proper school day during these holidays!).....and getting 95+% in their practise papers......

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BernardsarenotalwaysSaints · 25/08/2021 17:15

@louisejxxx

Where is your dd starting at in Sept *@BernardsarenotalwaysSaints*

My ds is starting at AGS on the 7th

AA louise, she did the summer school during the first week of the holidays & loved it. It think 3, possibly 4 from her primary are going to AGS.

She really wanted to go to Shottery but had a waiting list, rather than automatic entry, score & we didn't want the uncertainty of the waiting list & she agreed. She really wasn't keen on the idea of AGS so we ordered it SGGS, AA, AGS, St Bens on our application.

Ds on the other hand has his heart set on AGS & would like KES 2nd on his preferences (although this year I'll probably not submit the application until after we have the scores, I was just convinced I'd forget last year Grin). That's dh's fault though, he went to KES briefly & utterly hated it.

louisejxxx · 25/08/2021 12:35

Where is your dd starting at in Sept @BernardsarenotalwaysSaints

My ds is starting at AGS on the 7th