Large secondary schools

We’ve found that, @Cattitudes. The school had a full set of small adaptations already planned for my daughter’s medical condition because they’ve seen similar before. It meant they came up with ideas that I hadn’t even thought to ask for, but which will really make a difference for her.

School is split into two halves for yr7&8 by language learnt so they learn a different language and will have all subjects in their language half of the year, so for example someone studying French would never have a class with someone studying Spanish. This helps them to settle and meet friends, clubs and assembly are shared. Yr9 they narrow their options a little and a yr9 music class would have children from both halves, whereas English is still mainly their half. Essentially the further on they go the more they mix the year group up.

It seems to work well, especially for the more quirky child who is more likely to find their peer group than they might with a smaller pool of peers. A larger school often means more resources and specialist support might be more likely. It especially is useful if they have a health or learning need. If there are 360 pupils each year rather than 180 it would take twice as many school year intakes in the smaller school to see the same number of children coming through. So say a condition affects 1 in 1000 children, in the small school they might not have admitted anyone with that condition for 7yrs, in a larger school they probably currently have two or three pupils with that condition.

I'm happy with the 10 form school that kids go to/went to.

I've only needed help from the school a couple of times and things were sorted quickly. My kids don't have SEN and were happy to be under the radar tbh. Teenagers are all about their friends and big schools are more likely to have kids who are like yours.

My ds came from a 1 form primary and had a classmate who is autistic. He was happy at the primary but he's even happier to have met boys like him. There have been tricky times for him (big schools mean lots of jostling and noise at lunch etc) but it's worked out well for him too.

Our quiet shy child is in a year group of 330 (11 forms).

Advantages- loads of extra curricular activities on offer, choice of 3 languages (school sells itself as a science specialist school), wide range of GCSE and alternative qualifications. Same Form teacher for years 7-11

Disadvantages - busy site, sheer numbers of children. Feeling lost and overwhelmed at times.

All this has been countered by excellent pastoral support, reception staff that welcome her by name and a communication system that lets all the teachers and support staff know this is child who has been struggling and who benefits from small, but crucial, adjustments.

I'm not sure a smaller school would have the resources to have a staffed pupil support unit with staff available to help at any point during the school day.

Thank you, that's really interesting.

You apply for the school and get allocated a site. There is kind of a double catchment (one catchment for each site) so if you are in catchment you are guaranteed your catchment site. Distance tiebreaker is to nearest site and students will be assigned to sites based on distance. There are situations every year due to the geography (there are more houses nearer site A than site B) where students get assigned to the site they don't want and then have to make a "site transfer" request which is managed solely by the school and obviously offers no guarantees! There are also definitely cases where parents want to be able to specify

1. School X Site A
2. School Y
3. School X site B

I don't know about sports teams (neither of my DC are sporty), but trips are organised across school (or they were pre Covid; don't know about what will happen ongoing). They also do joint things like e.g. a theatre group coming in to explore a GCSE text which they'll run across the whole year group.
Academically, the experience of being a student in (say) Year 9 at Site A as compared to a Year 9 student at site B, will vary only in the same way as a Year 9 student in 2 different classes at the same site. The 2 sites have the same assessments and exams which are sat at the same time and teachers moderate across the whole year.

This is interesting User . So do you apply just for the school, and get allocated a site? How do they measure distance? Do they field combined sports teams for inter-school matches? Are trips eg MFL co-organised?

Actually the opposite to schools merging Teen - the school started on one site and expanded. I believe there was a thinking at one point that going for supersize schools was the way forward but not sure it ever caught on. I think the idea is that it gets the advantages of a very large school e.g. financial savings (shared facilities and staff); the ability to share teaching knowledge and resources whilst retaining some of the features of a "small" school in terms of things like more intimate pastoral care etc. Though there is 8 form entry at both sites, so it's still hardly small. We do see students move between sites if they want a "fresh start" for whatever reason and obviously this is different to moving to a new school as all the teaching/rules/processes are the same so easier to slot in.

Within each site the teaching is in 3 strands in KS3 - which basically means all timetabling of subject teaching is within only a third of the year (though this again, has been lost this last year due to Covid) so the DC only mix with a smaller group of people/staff. I suspect this might have been what PPs meant?

But interesting to see how different schools organise things.
I guess the message for OP is that it's highly unlikely that their child will become an anonymous face in a huge seething mass (although teens actually like to be anonymous on the whole!) - the school will have its own structures in place to make sure they know each child as an individual.

User That really sounds like 2 schools with some shared admin!
I know that happens sometimes when schools 'merge' but keep 2 sites, I'm assuming that's not what the pp meant though (?)

When people say 'split into 3 schools' do you mean more than just being taught with a subset of pupils?
e.g.

• physical buildings
• assemblies
• lunch times

(I'm trying to see whether it is just terminology compared with splitting into halves or thirds for teaching purposes, or more than that.)

I have family members who are teachers. Cover for subjects they don't teach is more prevelent in small schools

Not sure if this applies everywhere, but the last school I taught at was the biggest in the area. I was employed as a biology teacher and expected to teach biology; and they wouldn't let me anywhere near the A level classes till they knew I was suitable.
Smaller school during training and everyone taught all sciences to GCSE; biology specialist attempting higher tier GCSE physics is not ideal for anyone!

My DC were at a Titan primary the size of a small secondary. Kids are definately not lost: the structures are just different. Local high is 10 form entry which is split into sub schools. Massive upside is the extra curricular, facilities and support units

I have worked in both very big and medium-sized schools. Larger schools do of course have more staff so there's no reason why their teachers would know them any less well than at a smaller school. The biggest school I worked in had a really strong pastoral system based on 4 houses and was absolutely brilliant. I honestly don't think the size of the school really matters, it's things like ethos, pastoral support and behaviour you need to look out for.

Ps the larger the school, the larger the number of like minds you will find in it. I never understood the notion that a quiet child needed to be in a small school - that’s no good if it’s a small school full of loud mouths, it just means it’s a smaller pool with a lower chance of there being someone like you within it. What you need is a well run school rather than a school of a specific size. It’s not even as though small state schools generally have smaller class sizes, and no school leaves you floundering in whole-school lessons, as that would be ridiculous.

Lots of potential advantages of a big secondary school if well run. A good, large school still has a good sense of community and will in general be comparatively better off than a small school, so may well be able to offer more choices in subject and better facilities.

I went to a large school - not sure how many forms but it was a few.

We were split into 3 schools and so we'd only really have classes with those in our section. The others were there but rarely saw them beyond break and lunch time.

General talks about choosing options were done in year assembly, then they could discuss with their subject teachers. We're not at personal statement time yet, so I don't know but suspect thats done by the head of sixth form

How do they deal with things like talks about choosing options, or helping with personal statements etc? Is it just done elsewhere rather than tutor time?

@TeenMinusTests DS likes them, and has missed it this year as they have removed them to stop any inter year mixing (each year group have been pretty much confined to an area of the school). When they are younger it gives them some connection to the kids further up and vice versa, and separating tutor groups from teaching gives a different view, and different people to those they would normally stay with

CMOT Slightly off topic, but what do you think of the vertical tutor groups?

Ds is in a 10 form per year school - but it is divided into 4 houses, and then has vertical forms (so yr 8-13 in the same form) for tutor time, and then they have subject groups which are streamed. I don't feel like he is lost at all, and there are lots of opportunities to do stuff and in normal times lots of clubs

Have to agree with posters above. Don't let the size alone put you off.
Our primary school has 4-12 per year, but secondary school has 12 form entry ( we live rurally). I've had 3 children go through the schools so far. Although a bit apprehensive prior to moving up they have all really enjoyed being in a bigger school. In fact the child who has benefited the most is the quietest one! The facilities are great as well as choice of GCSE options.... So for example he can do further maths after school and a great computer science department. He also struggled to make good friends at primary school but at a secondary he has a found a group of like minded friends who like Pokémon as much as he does!
It probably depends on the school but I think that by year 7 they are ready to move to a different environment

My 'quiet' DD went from a 2 form entry primary to 8 form entry fully comprehensive secondary - so not as big as the one you mention, but quite a change. She has absolutely come out of herself and is thriving, gaining in confidence and throwing herself into all the opportunities. As others have mentioned, the benefits (in our case) are range of facilities, range of subjects and extra curricular activities, huge pool of specialist staff and teachers, the amount of sheer space, very robust processes in place. Kids streamed already in y7 for some subjects so number of classes and teachers means lessons are tailored suitably to ability. Although it is a big school, it does not necessarily feel like it. Communication and pastoral care is excellent. Number of kids means they have more chance of finding like-minded friends. She has a small but lovely group of friends. They hang out together and so I am not sure are really aware of the size of the school. I don't think a child would feel 'lost' in a large school necessarily. It probably comes down to an individual school and the leadership, but all being equal there, I would choose a large school over a small one for all the reasons above (and I went to small schools).