"We don't want you to sit with us"

Tableflowerss You seem to be talking about what the world should be like rather than what it is. If you know anything about older children and teenagers then you will know that they will not hang around with people they feel empathy or pity for. They will not pretend to like the OP's son because he is vulnerable. This will continue to be the case as he becomes an adult. I haven't noticed the adults I work and live alongside to be any more inclusive than teens, they just hide their lack of interest better perhaps. It may well be that the world should be welcoming and inclusive and empathetic but the fact is that it isn't.

OP You need to focus your attention on getting your ds into clubs. If the HUB isn't working for him, why not? I have two children with ASD and agree that you cannot force children to be friends or even friendly with your dc. Apart from anything else, it wouldn't work if they were only tolerating him. Let's say the teachers tell them they must welcome him at lunchtime in the dining hall. Then they get up to leave and he follows. What then? At some point they will tell him he isn't welcome. They either like him for who he is or they don't. This is not the same as playing sandcastles in reception. Your dc needs to form relationships with people on the same wavelength as him. This means finding groups for young people with similar interests as him and making use of the HUB for the times when there is nothing going on.

TBH Tables, we know so little about the scenario to make a proper judgement. If OP's son is literally just sitting there, minding his own business and not wanting interaction from the other children then they are being unreasonable, but is that actually the case? I'm one of those SEN parents you speak about, would I want my child to make another group possibly feel uncomfortable every school day by talking to them - no I would not. It sounds like they have tried for a while and have had enough now. That doesn't make me a bad SEN mother. It's heartbreaking watching your child struggling, I've been there and got the T-shirt, but just because my child has SEN doesn't mean other children's wants and desires are ignored

Yes but what’s the poor boy supposed to do? Be socially isolated because no one wants him I’m the vicinity.

I know some children can be hard work but those with SEN are clearly often vulnerable. The NT DC should really have more empathy.

Yes, he’s not their ‘problem’ or responsibility, but the school are failing the poor boy. This is why there should be option of schools specifically for children with SEN and not just profound/multiple SEN, because this is the epitome of what can happen to those poor kids!

Either segregated and made to feel worthless at best ir bullied at worst…

It’s heartbreakingly sad. If parents, teachers and the media, focused on teaching kids to be inclusive of everyone, the world would be a better place.

All the emphasis on how people are perceived on social media and how popular they are and how beautiful they are and the ridiculous celebrities that the kids look up too…

That’s what’s wrong with the world. Once poor boy isn’t even allowed to sit down 😔

Is he receiving help with his social skills?

I don't think my DS is "quirky and original" and it says a lot that you are this defensive over your son. It doesn't help him in the long run.

But he has many attributes, as well as many things that I can be honest about, that prevent his peers from liking him. Whilst I love him, I have experienced many a day where I dislike him greatly. I'm the person who loves him most in the world, and some days, god knows I could merrily leave him to be raised in the woods by wolves. As for this situation....teen peers, who have to spend all day in class with him, then he follows into lunch each day and they've done their best to involve him, but their patience has reached it's end? On their behalf, I get it. So should OP. It sucks. But it's not the place of one peer group to "fix" because that's the one OPs son has chosen to attach himself too, and they can't say no because "bullying"

I doubt very much that he's simply sitting their quietly, eating his lunch then leaving them alone. I expect much more that he feels over attached and familiar after a classroom conversation about cars with one boy within the group. Perhaps he is repetitive, trying to start conversations about cars all the time, as that's all he recognises has worked, once, before. Perhaps he really encroaches on this one particular boy, who has no interest in OPs son, who simply happened to have a conversation about cars in a science lesson, once, long ago.

My point is, I have a non NT child, and I know what they can be like. It's not their fault. But it's not the other children's fault for becoming exasperated, then projecting that they are unkind, mean, etc. This isn't about non acceptance, or bullying. He's been attaching himself to them, uninvited, for some time, and they've accommodated....and now reached the point of enough. Without malice, they've said that they don't want him to continue doing this.

This absolutely shouldn't be forced. It's not how the real world works. Not everyone likes you. More people don't like non NT people, sad but true, and it's far better helping them overcome this, than fighting it. You won't win. You can't change that. I truly believe you are teaching him the wrong lessons, and it seems quite a few other non NT mums on the thread agree.

It is perfectly possible to have boundaries and still be kind and treat people as equals. I work with someone with a disability, sometimes that disability is inconvenient for me ( it’s a darn site more inconvenient for him ) but I don’t get to ignore him or complain about him, I have to find a way to make it work. I also work with someone with mental health issues I don’t get to exclude him either .

The OPs situation is why inclusion doesn’t work when applied across the board. Too often inclusion just means exclusion in reality. We went the specialist school route for our ds in secondary and his confidence soared. He knows that he sometimes thinks differently from others but he also knows that this doesn’t make him a lesser person and that there are people who will value him for who he is . Five years of being sneered at and excluded was just to poor a prospect, I know we were lucky to have this option.

**You're raising your daughter without allowing her her own boundaries.

Woohoo so inclusive.

God help her**

I think you’ve mistaken having zero empathy for ‘having boundaries!’

I’m saddened reading some of these posts, particularly those from parents who have DC with SEN.

They don’t have to interact with him if they really don’t want to but to say ‘we don’t want you to sit here’ is cruel.

At 14, kids know what is likely to cause upset to someone. It’s not like they’re 9!

I would be a so annoyed at my DD if she said that to someone. She’s not 14 yet but I can bet my house she wouldn’t say that to someone, because she’s got too much empathy to realise it would be unkind.

Again, more so because he has SEN.

Some of the excuses on here are just crass!

Woohoo so inclusive.

God help her.

What is his SEN OP? Has he been diagnosed with anything in particular? Does he attend any groups or clubs out of school?

@Tristatearea thank you. DS has had a tough time of it...but we're finally starting to see the light.

He's been rejected from plenty of peer groups. He despises football, that's him out of most groups. Thinks the boys in hooded tracksuits posing like gang members look like "complete reprobates" (and rather helpfully would point that out ). He has a bit of a superiority complex because he's realised he's very bright and it's his armour to hide behind. "I might be a lot of things, but at least I'm not stupid like you" would be his retort when others were either being deliberately unkind, or simply had lost tolerance for him. But the difference is, I teach him to deal with the rejection and look for different avenues, because (whether he can help it or not) he's usually brought it on himself.

This year, after a decade of wondering when he would have a friend who lasted more than 3 weeks, he's found his people. Four odd little bods they are. And they honestly remind me of the pythons. They game together. Make vlogs. Challenge each other to find the best crap they can for £1 in a charity shop. And girls are even starting to notice them....geek chic and too much unkempt hair seems to be in....who knew

OP, your son will get there. I know it seems like it will never happen, but it will. The more you encourage him to be himself, he will find his own little crew. Don't encourage him to attach himself to one that isn't for him, you are doing him a disservice. Help him understand that it's ok not to be everyone's cup of tea.

I'm actually quite disgusted that people deem this acceptable. As someone who has spent years working with people with additional needs, I shall be bringing my daughter up to treat everyone as equal, as should be the way in life.

For people to actually be saying they think it's acceptable to tell a child he can't sit at a table for lunch, just because he isn't in their clique or whatever, is it any wonder so much bullying goes on in ways of those who need additional support.

If I ever heard my daughter say this to another child for no good reason, I would be VERY disappointed in her.

Apologies for typos, I’m not used to my new tablet yet

Twins said it much more eloquently than me, but I also do really feel for you, OP, it’s utterly heartbreaking. It’s for this reason that I’ve decided that if we don’t secure special for my son we’ll be home schooling for secondary. I just can’t put him (or me tbh) through it.

Be kind to yourself.

If it was anything like us, (alternative crowd - certainly not the popular group!), we were polite, tried to be nice, but we all felt uncomfortable, he had 0 boundaries for personal space, asked awkward questions, and meant we couldn't enjoy our lunch break. On top of that we just didn't click - despite him thinking we did. None of us really wanted to tell him to go away and were all a bit scared he'd lash out (he had been known to do so) so someone told him X was looking for him, he'd then wonder off to go find them and just generally encouraged him that so-in-so wanted to be their friend but was shy. It sounds mean but in a way he was friends with the whole year by year 11, he couldn't tell when people were mocking him and he thought he was one of the most popular boys in school. Also it is a very awkward situation for the other children to be in, they don't really know how to handle it!

I could give you a long story about this boy deciding we were best friends in year 11 after we had to sit next to each other in a class.

Without speaking to the other children involved, you have no idea what has happened. Just because he sat with them for awhile, doesn't mean that they've been friends. It seems very unlikely to me that one day they just woke up and decided to tell him to go away one day after they'd all been having a nice lunch together. It is more likely they've been polite, he hasn't been picking up on hints so they have decided to be blunt about it.

You need to talk to the school and see about what support they can put in place for him. I don't see how they'd be allowed to kick him out of the hub. You need to raise it with them. Not try and force the school to enforce him being allowed to sit with this particular group.

Twinsandtrifle you sound like an amazing mum who will be making great strides in helping your child find positive relationships in life.

Even NT people aren’t wanted in every friendship group but there are posters here determined to cause themselves or their child harm by building relationships based on pity or duty.

I'm a mum of a boy with SEN, he's in yr 7. He's very quiet and struggles a lot with social interaction. His anxiety is through the roof, so no one would hear a peep from him. Would I expect the same group to put up with him expecting to sit at the table with them every day, no I would not.

I would definitely raise the issue with the HUB, but I wouldn't be demanding that the group issue is forced upon. I think there should be an expectation that anyone can sit anywhere, but daily is asking too much and I don't think the group are being UR saying they've had enough.

@AledsiPad absolutely. Crossposted with you.

We'll put TwinsandTrifle.

The school has let you down, you can't expect teens to pick up the slack. They were polite for a while, they aren't going to spend every lunch managing social expectations of another child because they talked about cars once.

Cars are a really cool and popular interest. He's bound to find like minded people who appreciate his interests and him.

I was the unpopular kid at school. Often sat on my own at lunch. I still don't think you can force friendships. These are teenagers, school is mostly a highly regimented environment and lunch is the main socialising opportunity of the day. Grownups can afford to be inclusive because there's more choice and agency. I was on a uni course with a bloke who was lovely but did tend to monologue at length about subjects of interest only to him, and clearly had a variety of issues with social interaction. Luckily there were enough of us that he could sit next to different people each day in breaks and was always included. It would have been a taller order with a smaller group. Also, we were all adults. Teenagers are not known for their social graces! It's heartbreaking as a parent though, no question, and the school clearly need to sort something out.