"We don't want you to sit with us"

@Changemusthappen and yet, when they are assertive, your response is that their wishes must be overridden?

Possibly the OP knows this, but how do any of us know the social skills of this group? Maybe they can't cope with attention of OP's son?

My DS has SEN and one part of it is being anxious. He's only happy with his little group of friends (they are all similar) and they'd all find extra attention very awkward and not know how to deal with it. My DS can be quite blunt when somethings bothering him.

Could there be a reason like above that's why school won't enforce this lunchtime plan?

I think you need to contact school OP

itsgettingwierd
I think you're missing the point a little. This doesn't sound like a one off telling someone they can't sit in an empty seat, and it's much more like an ongoing situation where one group of students is feeling like they're not able to socialise as a group because another student keeps following them around.

You may say who decides who can sit in empty seats, but it on its head, who gets to decide that they are entitled to join any friendship group they like and other students have to suck it up? It's not as black and white as you're suggesting

The trouble is, no one actually knows what went on.
It could have been:
You can't sit there (x is coming soon)
You can't sit there (kid didn't mean to be hurtful but just blurted it out)
You can't sit there (oh ffs, not you again)
You can't sit there (I'm a nasty shit who gets off on the power)
You can't sit there (because you'll try and talk about cars cos I was nice to you in physics and wasbeing polite, but now I want to talk to the others)
You can't sit there (I'm bottom of the pecking order here and I need to show that I have some authority)
You can't sit there (I don't really have much in common with you, but don't yet have the social skills to articulate that)
You can't sit there (you haven't been getting the hint that we're not really your mates, so I'm having to spell it out)
You can't sit there (it's nothing personal, you're just not one of us)

Adults do this more subtly, but it's still done. And yes, I teach my dc to be kind and include others (although ds is more likely to be the kid left out tbf, as I was), but kids should be free to choose who they want to hang out with. So many friendship and social issues arise in schools cos x wants to be friends with y, but y doesn't want to. The kids need to be taught nicer ways of responding, but equally, the boy needs to find other kids.

However I'm not getting the impression it's as simple as a group being domineering dictating that a student can't use the spare seat, I'm feeling there is more to it - he's possibly interacting with them and they don't like it - they are entitled to not like something...

What help is your son receiving for his social skills OP?

Threads still going and still no one has thought to consider exactly who these kids think they are deciding who sits where in a canteen - and who the school considers has this right and who doesn't.

I stand by what I said unthread. Just ask the school the simple question.

"Who do they give permission to to decide who sits where and what empty seats can be occupied by whom?"

Sometimes you have to move away from complaining to simply ask them how they've come about their decision.

In this case it's to allow a group of students to be in charge of seating.

It's disgusting that they are allowing students the authority to decide who can and can't sit where in a public place.

I suspect this boy is the 'leader' of the group and I bet some in the group aren't bothered if he sits there or not, however aren't assertive enough to say. We are not raising our children, especially girls to be assertive enough imo

But on the flip side they have been assertive and are being told not to be and to keep quiet even if they’re not comfortable with it.

It would depend on whether the child has been nasty to someone then I think they’re within their rights to say they don’t want him sitting there.
I know lots of friendship groups fall out and say one person can’t sit there and then it’s forgotten about and then it changes to a new person. Kids have fall outs all the time so it’s no necessarily just because someone has SEND that they’re being pushed out of the group.

I’m my DDs school there was a friendship bench where you sat if you had no one to play with and anyone was allowed to sit there which I thought was a lovely idea

Does the school not have a library?

Maybe he could catch up with homework there over lunchtime and thus he'd have more free time at home.

"these NT teens cannot be expected to feel even slightly uncomfortable for 30mins"

How many of you who hold these views would have lunch every single day with someone they find tiresome and annoying?! No, thought not.

OP I’m very sorry I haven’t read the whole thread but I think I have the gist of it. In your shoes I wouldn’t wait for the next EHCP review I’d ask for a meeting with the TAs and SENCO and ask them to identify anyone at all that you DC can be supported to build bridges with. And then i would start to do a bit of detective work to find out who the parents are and if there’s anything I could do outside of school time to foster a friendship ie by inviting this other youngster over, meeting in the park or whatever. Teens are notoriously cliquey and it must be heartbreaking for you. But there must be someone he could find a friendship of sorts with. I agree with other posters about not expecting people to accept him if they don’t wish to. Might seem harsh but surely better to focus on finding a genuine alliance of sorts. Could you ask school to set up and support a mini group at lunchtimes? Ask for it to be added into his EHCP?

It’s interesting that these NT teens cannot be expected to feel even slightly uncomfortable for 30mins but the excluded child is fine to be uncomfortable all day
Has anyone actually said that?

The school have a duty to the OP's child and where they aren't meeting it (like some of what OP mentioned about the other social groups/lunch clubs/staff in support base) then that needs to be raised. The school's duty does not include telling other students they must have another student be attached to their friendship group for the (typically) 30 minutes of social time available in the school day.

Like most adults, the conversations I would have with my friends are different to those i would have if the audience was wider and included people i know but am not friends with. Not all teenagers will meet up regularly out of school, especially if there's a large catchment. Expecting a group of friends to lose or seriously modify their limited social time is unreasonable.

I agree with Glen too, it's a short time, your child isn't asking to be best buddies. I suspect this boy is the 'leader' of the group and I bet some in the group aren't bothered if he sits there or not, however aren't assertive enough to say. We are not raising our children, especially girls to be assertive enough imo. .

As an aside I wonder how the school would react if a disabled/trans/muslim pupil was told this? If the answer would be different then it's not on.

Dear God, some of these replies are awful. Bloody heartbreaking for you and your child. I would not except this response from school; they have to look after his social needs along with his educational needs. Does he have an EHCP?

The kids were mean and need lessons on inclusivity but it’s unlikely to make a huge difference to your son at this stage.

Make a fuss, push the school to make some effort with buddying schemes, activities etc. You may find support if you look at charities that support his particular disability/need. Does he have any visiting professionals at the school that can support you?

I would also look at groups and activities outside of school that your child can practice their social skills, again charities are worth investigating.

Do not except this for your son and ignore the ignorant responses on this thread. Having a child with a SEN is a constant battle. Sending you strength and remember there are a lot of good, kind and accepting people in this world.

It’s interesting that these NT teens cannot be expected to feel even slightly uncomfortable for 30mins but the excluded child is fine to be uncomfortable all day

Literally no one has said that’s fine. Everyone has said that it should be a situation where everyone feels comfortable in an ideal situation. One child’s wants shouldn’t trump a whole group though.

Different situation as (I don’t believe) there was no SEND but, when we moved into secondary school, a lot of the parents from my class asked not to have their child put in a tutor group with one specific boy. This boy was disruptive and unkind to others and the parents felt that their children had had 7 years of it at primary school. The secondary school put him in a different tutor group. The boy’s dad kicked off at him being with none of his ‘friends’ so the school moved him back into their group. They then spent 5 more miserable years feeling uncomfortable. His needs - one child - were put before everyone else’s to make him comfortable.

But he's not uncomfortable all day. Where's that come from?

OP says he chats to one of the boys in his physics lesson.

I don’t think that my children are perfect, far from it. I have dc at both ends of the spectrum and one in between. I am also fully aware that children are entitled to spend time with friends and that friendships can’t be forced but I also don’t think we should just accept the status quo. If we did that girls would still be having to move over for boys and it would be ok to discriminate for all sorts of reasons . You don’t have to accept someone sitting next to you for a few minutes a day that you don’t like but you should be encouraged to confront your reasons for that and to consider the wider implications. I don’t accept that the canteen is not school, school is where we learn a lot of our social skills and as such it’s a place were teenagers should be encouraged to think about these issues. They can freely socialise outside school. It’s interesting that these NT teens cannot be expected to feel even slightly uncomfortable for 30mins but the excluded child is fine to be uncomfortable all day.

@baldafrique

I get where OPs frustrations lie. It's hard when it's always your child that is left out. They don't fit it, and don't understand why. They're desperate for a friend. It's really hard.

I truly believe, however, OP is looking for a solution in the wrong place though. From hard learned experience. The focus needs to be on her DS and coping strategies/alternatives. This will not be the last "please, can you give us some space" her DS will hear in his life.