"We don't want you to sit with us"

I give up, but good luck. I hope you get somewhere with school.

That is unless you know categorically that there is absolutely no excuse and they are just nasty pieces of work? Whatever happened, your boy is hurt, and that hurts. I've been there, got the T-shirt, but I'd want to find the full facts before making quite a strong judgement.

Everyone is trying to give you a different perspective. I wish you well

So from this thread we can see why some kids are unpleasant, unkind, and lack empathy, after all the apple never falls far from the tree.

I also agree with every post from @TwinsAndTrifle.

OP isn't leaving details out in my opinion. She's quick to respond when it suits her narrative. She glossed over the rest, which is quite indicative of how she's dealing with this situation.

And when many of us (with non NT children, so have direct experience) have pointed out, that her DS won't be sitting quietly, but is likely trying to direct conversation with children that aren't interested and want to do their own thing (as they're entitled too), and he's done it long term, daily, which they've tolerated, and now, with him not taking any hint, their tolerance has worn thin, OP ignores these posts.

She only sees her son as a victim. As mine can be, he is most likely irritating these children, daily, in their only free time, and they are wanting to be left alone. OP needs to deal directly with her son. This "the others need to be inclusive" is a false charade. Being inclusive is not forcing children to eat with/play with someone they simply don't like, when there are plenty of alternatives. They're not bullying him, and teaching him that people essentially telling him "Enough!", is bullying, is a very dangerous game indeed. They are allowed no boundaries, and somehow he's entitled to annoy them everyday because he has SEN? Yes, I know he doesn't mean too. Neither does mine. Doesn't change the fact that he does, and it's not their fault either. This creating him to be a victim is not helping him.

But he doesn't get to decide that he is part of their friendship group. Nobody gets to demand others spend their social time with them.

Speaking more generally than this situation, it is really problematic if adults start teaching children from a young age that they are entitled to demand access to games/friendship groups, and equally concerning if adults tell children that their chosen social boundaries should be ignored if some else demands access. It's another concerning attitude that is similar to expectations quieter students to tolerate the disruption and at times unpleasant behaviour of another student because the quieter students is a 'good influence' and will apparently benefit from having their own needs and boundaries ignored. The onus for managing the needs of students lies with the school, not other students.

The school need to put something in place to support your son and to help him develop socially, that doesn't consist of expecting other children to suck it up.

It is really harsh of them to say he cant sit here if he is literally just sitting. Outrageous really. I dont really see why he is bothered to sit with them but not chat tho, seems pointless. It's terrible there isnt social skills help for him at school. Really poor.

I get that students might work well with others in a seating plan/group work but perhaps because 'teacher is watching- you can't get away with being nasty
It's not about that though. The vast majority of secondary students are very nice, unlike what many mumsnetters think where their child is kind, inclusive, wonderful, would never say anything negative about anyone (and other nauseating claims about their child being so unique and better than the others).

They get on with others across lessons because they are decent people and know that in life you work with people who aren't your friendship group. They chat with those near them in class, much like most adults would chat with colleagues because they're nice people and they know how to rub along with others and be friendly.

Equally, like adults they want to spend their social time with their friends because friends are a different relationship from other students in your year that you might get on with.

There's a lot of adults on this thread who are holding teenagers to a standard higher than they would other adults. If a poster wrote that they were frustrated because every time they try to catch up with a work friend from another department at lunch, Sally tagged herself on, and they just want to have their unpaid lunch break with their friend, people would say the OP wasn't unreasonable. But teenagers wanting to sit in a lunch space and catch up with their friends is somehow awful.

You havent explained whether your son is literally just grabbing a spare seat or whether he is expecting to be part of the chats etc (not saying there is anything wrong with that) and whether he wants to hang around with them for the rest of lunch after theyve finished eating. Is it every day? Also why isnt he getting help with his social skills etc?

Its frustrating that the OP is providing so little detail

I get that students might work well with others in a seating plan/group work but perhaps because 'teacher is watching- you can't get away with being nasty!!!
I'm sure not all secondary kids are awful exclusionary bullies but there's a big element of following the crowd or the Queen Bee; they like lots of support. Must be insecurity. I've seen this many times. I too would be appalled if any of mine were like this- I'd hate it. But a lot of parents aren't really that bothered.
Honestly OP this treatment has built my child's resilience and she is tougher than some of her peers. She herself has said they'd be in tears if they'd had to go through it 😣

Lots of lovely examples of children who take ND children under their wings occasionally. The difference in my opinion is the expectation in this case is that it's not occasional, it's not a couple of PE lessons a week etc. It's every day and if they don't cooperate they are bullies. Nice.

I'd always expect my children to be kind, I would hate them to be nasty to anyone, but I'd draw the line of them being told that they have no choice to who they talk to, or sit with during their lunchtime. Im struggling with the "sits quietly" part baring in mind he wants to be with the child who talks to him - but that's been asked a few times and ignored. I wonder how quiet he is. My DS has SEN , he sounds very similar. He's generally very quiet, but has very distinct interests in life and is in his element if he can find someone who happily talks about his interests. Would I expect that person to deal with him every day? No I wouldn't - that's not fair. I'd like to think that person would chat to him from time to time, but I wouldn't demand daily, and I'd explain that to DS as best I could (not easy I know)

It's hard to really pull apart what the story really is here OP, obviously you are vehemently going to defend your boy, of course you are, but I wonder how long this has been going on, how long the group have gone along with it, how the "you can't sit here" was presented to him, how much was he keen to have the attention of this child, how much that child can cope with it - I'm very introverted, I don't have SEN but would struggle massively with having someone wanting to talk to me every day.

I find the schools response interesting, they need to support your DS, but as I said up thread, I wonder if there is a reason they won't encourage this friendship.

I know what it's like to have a child with SEN. My DS has complex medical and learning/social needs. He's the opposite to your son OP, in that he's much more taller than his peers and has gone into puberty early so is having to deal with feelings/hormones when really he's a young boy. Most people expect him to cope with more due to the fact he looks like a young adult when actually he's 12. I'd wrap him up in cotton wool if I could, but I can't

bumble They are presumably with their friends all day at school, see each other socially and can also catch up at other points in the school day

As your child is only 3 I'll let you off for that incorrect assumption.
It is quite possible to not see friends in lessons at all if they are in the opposite half of the year, in different forms or sets, or doing different options.
The only time to socialise can be 15mins at break at maybe 45 mins at lunch. These times also include finding each other, queuing for food, using loos and being at the right location afterwards. If one of those friends comes in and out on the school bus or similar then there will be no time before or after school either.

doorornottodoor
That's lovely, though in my experience the vast majority of students would do exactly what your DC did in that situation.
Most students will work with whoever the teacher pairs them with. They do group work with whoever the teacher puts them in a group with. They'll chat and get on with whoever the teacher puts near them in a seating plan.

Loads of posters (not you) on this thread seem to think that secondary students are awful exclusionary bullies and that their child is somehow amazingly more inclusive than all the others, when in reality most kids will get on fine with most other kids in class, and want to spend their lunchtimes with their friends. It's really not that unreasonable to want to have their social time as their friendship group without someone else always tagging on.

If a student hasn't got appropriate support, or the space isn't there to meet likeminded peers then the school need to raise their game and provide it, not expect other students to suck it up.

I’m sorry @challengerequired that must be heartbreaking for you to hear. My son is only 3 but the thought of him being excluded and lonely makes me so sad. I imagine it’s compounded by feeling helpless to change the situation.

Of course nobody should be forced to be friends with anyone or hang out with them regularly by choice. But from what I can tell your DS just wants to sit on their table at lunchtime. I can see from their perspective it might be challenging if they want to stay in their clique but it’s a good lesson in empathy for them. They are presumably with their friends all day at school, see each other socially and can also catch up at other points in the school day. Spending half an hour or so with someone with special needs who is obviously struggling is in my opinion not a big ask. Not wanting to include him in their conversation is one thing but to actively tell him not to sit there in a communal space is pretty cruel.

IMO it’s not comparable to a situation a PP mentioned of friends meeting in a restaurant and being joined by someone they don’t like - this isn’t friends meeting socially in a pre arranged group, it’s kids having lunch in a school setting where nobody gets to dictate where someone else sits.

I don’t have any advice OP but I don’t think you’re being unreasonable and I really feel for you and your son. I hope you manage to get some more support from the school

Can I also say @challengerequired that my child who was excluded by others has thrived as he’s got older.