Secondary decision: conversation re private vs state?

Where I live, I would say the majority of parents don’t want dc being educated with working class dc. Which is largely shorthand for badly behaved and not so bright dc. They certainly would nit consider it good to mix with them and clearly avoid it. It’s also fairly openly discussed. They move heaven and earth to get dc into the grammars that have a tiny handful of fsm dc. They openly hate the local secondary modern and would all go private if they could afford it. These people are not my friends but people in small villages with 100% Middle class folk really do think like this. It’s odd the op had not worked out her friend was one of this type. And yes. The private schools and the grammars are full of them! Havens from the working class.

My kids went to/are at a private school. I went state (in America, where very few go private in the area I grew up in no matter how wealthy).
There is quite a mix of demographics that attend, from one child families where the mum is a cleaner amd dad a builder making sacrifices to pay for schooling, to families that holiday every half term in some fancy villa or chalet. Most are in between, what you might term solid middle class. The state schools near here are poor, certainly at secondary level.
I don't recognise the stereotype your friend is describing. Sure, there are schools that might have a population of privileged children who are expected to become top of their respective fields, but the majority of privately educated people just go about their lives without wearing a badge of superiority. Likewise, there are plenty of state educated people who had a good education and are extremely successful, who also don't go around with a resentful chip on their shoulder.

OP I was in a similar situation a decade ago. I knew Dds state primary class well. I helped out in the class, in a leafy middle class village. There was an expectation from other parents Dd would go private as she was near top of the class. She didn’t. The class split with just under half going private, the rest state. Academically, Dd got the highest grades at A Level out of her old class. I would say which school they went to had little effect on their original class ‘order’ from primary Sats to A Level. There were a few exceptions which were due to family circumstances (deaths of parents, divorces).
She now also has a nice savings account for a house deposit when she’s older. And has grown up in a nice house, going to the local comp living around her classmates.
However, this is our situation. If I had really appalling state schools we would have had to think again.

Rather early I know, but it's much better to be top of the class at a state secondary and get top grades than middling in a private school and still attain top grades.

Many top tier universities look at the context in which grades are awarded and your DC could be disadvantaged attending private school if they can still get top grades at a state secondary.

We are not British and are in London, so maybe a different point of view
Went for state primary and academic private secondary reasons are :
-better educational provision and wider curriculum due to greater flexibility in the content and the form of what is taught

• more funding (think state schools get about £4/5k per child)
• better facilities,
• smaller group sizes
• narrower range of ability meaning the teachers don’t have a very wider range of needs to worry about.
• More targeted setting.
• less disciplinary issues
• our school has a generous bursary and scholarship fund so there is still a great diversity of background, lots of hard working families so whoever feels privileged is feeling it because they have access to the school per say and have worked for it (noone born with a silver spoon!) and lots of families are making sacrifices to pay the fees.

She's batshit.

We're sending our child to private and I really hope I don't meet nutters like that.

Crazy advice really

I do accept the opportunities and environment will be better, but overall academic achievement and lifetime prospects will I be damaging my children’s future?!

I'm privately educated while my kids are state educated and I have no regrets about that.

They were educated with peers of similar academic ability. If they were struggling then I could have brought in tutors as their school day was shorter. FWIW our school often sends someone to Oxford or Cambridge and there are many Russell Group offers too. My dd is predicted A star AA this summer and I don't think that a private education would have meant 3x A*

Private schools have problems that the state schools have too eg drugs (more pocket money means ability to buy drugs in bigger quantities sooner) and sexual assault (remember the Everyone's Invited website?) Obviously there's plenty of kids in both who avoid that kind of thing but you're not guaranteeing that your kid can avoid this by going private.

Lifetime Prospects - do you mean stuff like the Old Boys Network? I suspect that you need to go to a top tier school like Eton or Westminster for it to be a real thing and that the average private won't buy that kind of access.

Opportunities - possibly. Depends on the private school but I would have liked the choice to explore stuff like pre-U for my kids. I know that they are fine doing the traditional A-levels then uni but it would be nice to have that choice. If finances permit you could consider private at 16?

Is your friend private school educated? Some people think that paying inevitably means a better service when the reality is that both private and state options vary a lot and it depends on what the child is like. Some would like to be pushed further and harder while others do better in a more nurturing environment.

Only you know your local schools and you should be rethinking "friends" who judge like this.

If your kids are bright and happy with their current friends you don’t need a private school IMO and it’s easier to get into a good uni as they increasingly contextualising. In fact private is a positive disadvantage. My DS has an Oxbridge offer I am certain he would NOT have got if he had been private...

She sounds like an ignorant, snobbish twat. I'd ditch the friend and send your kids to the state school as planned.

@motogogo - “ pupils tend to be more motivated because their parents are more encouraging.”

Agree with @OhHarry. What a silly assertion that parents of State educated children are less encouraging of their children!

there's a lot less disruptive behaviour (because they have been kicked out) pupils tend to be more motivated because their parents are more encouraging.. I don't think that always follows if the school needs the fees. I don't think your 'encouragement' comment follows either.

It would entirely depend on the schools. Mine are at an outstanding comprehensive, the behaviour is generally excellent, the teaching 90% excellent and the ethos of the school is exactly what I want for my kids. We are very close to some of the best privately schools in the country and I’m lucky to have had the means to put my kids through them if I want to. My ex and I both went through private education from 4.

As my eldest finishes school he and virtually all his friends are sitting on RG uni offers. The less academic kids still have really good uni offers and he’s happy confident and ambitious. He said to me the other day “I’ve got exactly the same GCSE results, the same A level predictions and the same uni offers as my friends in private, what was the point of paying” I did say to him that he might have got a bit more music (no musical talent) and a lot more sport that he would have definitely embraced but £200k more of it. Almost certainly not. If your state schools are good then ignore the hearsay of your friend

Size of house etc is irrelevant, after all it's the equity that counts!

She is right that opportunities are better at private schools and there's a lot less disruptive behaviour (because they have been kicked out) pupils tend to be more motivated because their parents are more encouraging. My kids were state educated but if I could go back in time I would have sr t them private at 11. One of my DD's struggled terribly with the disruption in the classroom and has left her seriously anxious

Poor performance issues, underfunded facilities and some disruptive behaviour - well, obviously you’d listen @PresentingPercy & would weigh up the individual school and appreciate your friends input (even if ultimately you didn’t agree with it. However a blanket statement in State schools relating to the undesirability of mixing with Working Class children?! Something else!

Friends of course have different opinions they are entirely entitled too, completely agree and we don’t always have to agree with them. Personally, I like strong women who know their own minds. However, unlikely I think that someone with such a noxious classist view would ever be a friend of mine in the first place. Certainly older members of my own family hold extremely class ridden attitudes but as the line goes, you can’t choose your family but you can your friends.

If the friend had said the local school had loud progress 8, lots of children who were disruptive and poor teaching and resources, what would you have said then? I know people who didn’t like that we privately educated DDs. Getting above ourselves etc. So friends have opinions and sometimes you don’t like them. We didn’t lose any friends and rose above the criticism. It’s just life.

Education is one of those things that everyone has an opinion about. You need to work out what your opinion is and do that. FWIW we could have sent ours privately but chose not to. You can add an awful lot of additional value to a state school education for 45k a year if you need to eg if you want them to have great sporting opportunities .

To be absolutely frank, your friend sounds like a spiteful cunt.
Send your child to the state school and bin off the elitist twat.

Being able to interact comfortably with people from all walks of life is precisely the reason we chose the good local comp for our kids.

Mind you, your friend has just voiced the reason that many people privately hold as why they choose private, or at least a substantial factor in their decision. Most will never admit this as they realise it's deeply classist.

Well she's really unkind in her shit stirring, isn't she?

Does she have DC and where do they go to school?

No, do not sell your house and spend the money. Do you even have a private school nearby they you like the look of on paper? What is your local state school like?

Anyone who thinks method of funding the school outweighs what individual schools are actually like is a fool. And I would be very wary of someone who was proposing such a massive change to your family budget, based solely on stereotype

I’m assuming that this friend didn’t herself go up a Private school? Speaking as someone who was privately educated, plenty of shy, unconfident and socially gawky children leave Private schools at age 18 every year. Nice manners you learn from your parents. My old school network hasn’t benefitted me in the least outside of a few nice parties. And quite honestly speaking as my mother would say ‘well’ has done me as many disservice’s as it has favours I could have written this. Particularly if you have a bright child with a good work ethic, there is no need to go privately. A lot of professionals can't afford to privately educate nowadays, so assure your friend (if you can bear to speak to her again) that your DC won't catch 'oik' and transfer it to her children.

@PresentingPercy, while I wholeheartedly agree we should be tolerant of other people’s views and how boring it would be if our friends all thought as we did (like living in an echo chamber), I think you are being far more charitable and nicer than I would be about any friend directly implying I was doing my children a disservice by allowing them to mix with a working class demographic!

Going to any old private school isn’t worth the money. Going to one of the best is worth the money. Depends if you have the money though. You would need to sell your house so really you don’t. Stay put and enjoy the house.

I think you are prickly about your friend because she hit a nerve. You have listed here for reassurance. She has different views to you. My DDs boarded and now that school is circa £39,000 pa. The poster above who thought £25,000 would get you top class boarding is deluded! Obviously private education means more to your friend than you but is it total fall out over this? That’s a bit too far I think. What happened to tolerance of other views. Laugh it off and get a big new car. She will get the message then. Cars over children I say. Every time!

Liam436, your blanket statement that “private schools today are a scam” is just as ridiculous as the OP’s friend’s view.

FWIW, my DD has SEN and the very reason we moved her from our supposedly outstanding state comp was that they refused to accommodate her ALN, despite a legal duty to do so.
Off rolling students who aren’t going to make the grade happens in state schools, you know.

Oh my! Just find it a little surprising if I’m honest that this person is actually a very good friend and hasn’t previously come out with equally atrocious stuff?

I’m not anti private, my eldest DD went to one for 2 years at Prep stage. However performance wise, whether they are better than the local State depends entirely on the local State. The idea that Private is always better is nonsensical and depends entirely which Private or what State.

I’m assuming that this friend didn’t herself go up a Private school? Speaking as someone who was privately educated, plenty of shy, unconfident and socially gawky children leave Private schools at age 18 every year. Nice manners you learn from your parents. My old school network hasn’t benefitted me in the least outside of a few nice parties. And quite honestly speaking as my mother would say ‘well’ has done me as many disservice’s as it has favours.

Quite honestly I really wouldn’t give this any further thought beyond disengaging from a rather appalling snob.