Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Unflip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Unflip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

SundayTimes Top 100 League Table

107 replies

Judy1234 · 18/11/2007 12:04

I wonder why today's table for top 100 secondaries - state and private merged is not on line. Anyway it's interesting in general. 18 state schools in the top 100 and my older children's old schools at I think placed 2, 12 and 18. I think 5 year averages are fairer. No state school in the top 20.

Interesting article says that although some state schools do get good A level results although they're completely eclipsed by the private schools who only educate 7% of children, they aren't as good at getting into university and that perhaps the reason is the schools don't educate broadly and roundly beyond cramming for exams.

OP posts:

scienceteacher · 19/11/2007 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Hulababy · 19/11/2007 20:42

So yes, based on SATs, hence so many of the preps not being included on the lists.

I think there is another oddity too. There is a very good state school I know which does not rank on those lists, but I know that it should be pretty high up on them. Wonder why that might not be included? It is certainly a large enough school, and the results would put them fairly high up. A search does not find it.

scienceteacher · 19/11/2007 20:42

The problem with Govt league tables is that they skew against private. Now that they report 5 A-Cs including Mathematics and English, many independent schools will not register because they do IGCSE Mathematics, despite it being a more rigorous qualification.

The unofficial league tables are likely to be more accurate of true performance.

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 20:41

I don't think I referred to a windsor school. May be it was someone else.

OP posts:

scienceteacher · 19/11/2007 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 20:38

Most private schools don't do SATs so I doubt it is a very good table at that level.

"Independent preparatory and junior (250 schools)
Prep schools whose pupils take Standard Assessment Tests (Sats) are ranked on their aggregated performance at Key Stage 2, level 5 for English, maths and science in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Rankings based on performance in each year can be obtained by clicking on the head of the respective columns in the league table."

OP posts:

Hulababy · 19/11/2007 20:35

Are the figures on that site for prep schools now linked to SATs? I thought that is how they did it for the league tables, which is all these lists are.

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 20:32

You can search the Times site on my first link above by name of school. That takes you to the placing - either in the top 500 state or top 500 private. It doesn't merge the two on line nor can you search that.

There is no easy good way to measure prep schools on tables so I don't think they are very accurate. Obviously the best ones are going to be the feeder schools to their seniors like Colet Court for St Paul's, Westminster Under school, Habs juniors, Dragon school oxford I suppose too or you could bast it on how many scholarships they get at common entrace atn 13 to very good schools.

OP posts:

Hulababy · 19/11/2007 19:50

It is really annoying that you can't search that site.

Hulababy · 19/11/2007 19:50

The school we hope DD will go to after her prep school is in the top 120 private schools; boy's school is a fair bit lowe at 207.

The prep school attached to that girl's school is in the top 100. The one DD goes to, we know, does academically better than that but it doesn't do SATs so not listed.

LadyMuck · 19/11/2007 19:38

Sevenoaks is IB and is ranked rather highly (at least in the printed version). I think that it had 6 pupils who got a maximum 45 score.

Ibroughtcake - it would depend on whether I thought that the school was the best available one for the dcs, and whether the dcs met the entry qualifications (believe Essex still allows selective entry by some state schools). A ranking on exam results is only one piece of information about the school, and I would probably base my views on a number of other aspects.

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 19:33

IB certainly in the UK because it includes Sevenoaks I think and also North London Collegiate (although the latter does a levels too and girls choose). Not sure what EB stands for.

Issy - you're right - it does what it says. The problem is some other state league tables recently haven't really done what they say which has led to some bizarre results.

It is certainly not added value but if you have a brilliant child why worry about added value anyway. The best academic schools add huge value to clever children. Private schools don't do SATs so you can't really compare those.

If you have 8 applicants per place at 11+ as some of these state and private selective schools do then you're bound to get better results but we're still left with 6% of children in the private sector getting 40% of the better university places etc. The private sector seems to add a lot of value. Even in some good state schools children won't apply for some places because they think it's not for them and they won't fit in (the class issue or the low expectation issue).

My taxi driver in the midlands last week was telling me about his very clever G&T granddaughter age 12. She wouldn't go to the good local state schools and ended up at teh sink one with her friends where hopefully she'll do okay but may be she won't. A different type of family would never have let that occur I suppose.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 19/11/2007 19:31

Sorry, just read your post below re IB.

But of course, not treating the IB/EB schools distorts the list because many of the most able pupils these days prefer to do the IB because is is more challenging and is better received in the best Universities.

So the list is, as Issy so rightly says, about which schools get the best results at A level. Fine, but A levels aren't the world's best high school diploma, and schools that weed out all but the most able are not necessarily the best at drawing out the talents of pupils.

Anna8888 · 19/11/2007 19:26

Xenia - does the list include IB/EB schools?

Issy · 19/11/2007 19:11

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request

ibroughtcake · 19/11/2007 19:01

I am feeling rather lucky that we live in Colchester now and plan on sending to state schools, just out of interest those of you who send your dc to private schools, if you lived somewhere like here where we have two of the top state schools would you still send your dc to private or would you then choose state?

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 18:52

This seemed to me like a table that reflects accurately which schools are the better ones. I haven't studied how it works that out but if I were looking 20 years ago when I had a 3 year old entering schools aged 4/5 then a lot of the better schools then are still the better ones now. Sevenoaks just does the IB and my second daughter's school offers it as an option and I don't know how they deal with that but that is very very few schools and whether on A levels or IB or both NLCS is always in the top 1 - 3 or 1 - 5 consistently. SO it's a good list.

The table of 100 not on line which includes independents and state I am not sure if that includes Scottish schools or not. Perhaps that comparison is too hard. Percent of sixth form getting into Oxbridge would be another useful table.

OP posts:

wheresthehamster · 19/11/2007 18:17

The school at number 42 only does the IB - presumably the A level results are the equivalent - is that what you meant Xenia?

marialuisa · 19/11/2007 18:10

SueW-from the top 500 independents;

Ockbrook at 85, Trent at 329, LHS at 105

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 17:37

These are clearly not skewed. There are a good few state schools in there and they go by how many A and A* and GCSE plus A/B at A level which is a really good measure. It is possible they include children who do a GCSE a year young and it's possible they include the international GCSEs which are much harder and some independents do but which if you take and get say A maths internationl GCSE that goes in Government league tables as a fail apparently! Any skewing is done by the Government not this table.

OP posts:

CountessDracula · 19/11/2007 17:14

hmm

Mine on first page
dh's and the one we had earmarked for dd on second page

dd went to local primary instead though!

boabsmum · 19/11/2007 17:12

Ahem - make that first equal (and St Mary's doesn't count because there are only about 3 pupils .

boabsmum · 19/11/2007 17:11

Here are the SCottish ones just so we're being fair in love and education and all:

www.timesonline.co.uk/parentpower/league_tables.php?t=scottish_independent_secondaries

My school's number 2 doncha know

CharlesandEddie · 19/11/2007 17:06

lol ! a friend said today i was to wait for real league tables in jan - said these are slewed in favour of independants!!

they will be on bbc web site as they are now!

roll on jan xenia!

Original poster

Judy1234 · 19/11/2007 17:05

Yes I have it here. The top state school was 21st in the county Henrietta Barnett not too far from me and then 23 QE Barnet again not far from here. All South East.

Next one is Colyton Garmmar school which got 92.4% AB at A level and 88.5 A/A GCSE (compared with the top one 98.8 A/B and 99 A/A.

The Tiffin at 34. Then Latymer.42

So most of the best state schools too are in the South East.

OP posts:

Unflip

1 2 3 4 5