SW London boys 11+ 2022 entry

Congrats for deciding - we landed on Hampton. DS is excited and feels like the right call for us. Thanks all for you help and support through this

we have paid deposit for latymer. right decision for us. thank you everyone for all the input.

Right, decision finally made. Deposit paid. We've settled on Hampton. Good luck to everyone else still deciding, not much time left!

There was no mention of any planned buildings works at LU on their tour, so that's a positive.

Latymer is easier. Could you tag me on the thread, I have been going crazy with all the research. Thank you so much. Can I pm you about reasoning for the choice?

@Glassfull there’s a whole thread on that choice. We had to make that choice last month and decided on LU. When my son visited the school again, he just loved it. What is more convenient for you?

Latymer or Hampton - how does one decide!!!!
We just can’t figure it out. Really worried about pastoral care at Latymer as haven’t heard many positive things

@13milebeach, that is a fair point re girls in sixth form. Although I’m not sure they take all the top performers - KCS takes about 50, and many others stay where they are.

We briefly considered it for my eldest DD; but the difference in fees between her (very good) current school and Westminster was enough to put us off - it is nearly £30k more over just the two sixth form years!

Worth noting that the Westminster Oxbridge stats are swayed by the fact that they literally cream off the highest achieving girls from the London and international schools who come in and stun the boys with their ability. My eldest went to Westminster and absolutely loved it, my second is currently at Hampton and my youngest, who has just got places at a Grammar and all the selectives he sat for, is opting for Hampton for entry in Sept. Having been to so many concerts, plays etc at the school, he can't wait to go.

Westminster encourages independent learning, possibly because the students are, on the whole, incredibly motivated and enter the school in Year 9 pretty much already at GCSE level. If a student is not self-motivated then they can fall through the cracks. My experience of Hampton is one where the school keeps track of each and every boy. Any slacking by my son (I blame my DNA!) and I will get an update from the school. If they feel he is falling behind in anything, they will put extra support in place. It is a really down to earth school where I feel the boys are validated and encouraged. There is a lovely atmosphere between the boys when you see them at any of the school events. My son is now a few months away from his GCSEs and I do feel that the school has helped him to work at the best of his capability, without him feeling pressurised or at all stressed.

yes it has moved. We received an offer earlier this week. and are now struggling between hampton and latymer. we had to say no to city.

@travelturtle it must have moved but I suspect the big movement will be when the deadline closes.

Does anyone know if the LU reserve list has moved yet and/or are there people still waiting on it?

Yes, class sizes will be smaller, especially further up the school. The facilities will certainly be nicer. There will be a greater desire to please the paying parent and probably swifter replies to communication etc.

But on the bottom line things like actual teaching, results and having a good range of clubs and activities, it will be broadly the same. People can pick and find little differences…they will be there, but the question is if it’s £20k of differences.

Sure, £20k is worth the stretch if your alternative is a crappy school that you really didn’t want. But when you’ve got one of the best state schools in the land available, unless you won’t miss most of the £20k, it seems an extremely expensive few extra ‘nice to haves’.

I say all this as an independent school parent. I had a place at a top comprehensive - really highly sought after, successful and difficult to get into. Kids do really well there and come out well rounded and go into good universities and good lives. I chose the independent, which might surprise you, in light of what I’m saying. The reason was that we were offered a substantial discount and also that the fees we had to pay wer very affordable for us in our circumstances. We were lucky in that the remaining fees wouldnt make a big difference to our lives. If they had made even a slightly bigger difference I’d have been happy to take the state option. And actually, even now a I wonder if some of the benefits of being there would be have been really worth it. I’m thinking if the real genuine benefits if mixing with a broader social mix and not being in a bubble so much. Of course these grammar schools and the top highly sought after Comps don’t have a huge social mix anyway, but it’s certainly broader than most independents. There will be children who are from average and less well off backgrounds amongst the many middle class kids….and personally I think that’s a good thing. One thing I worry a bit about, is my DC with their Prep education and then independent senior education, really haven’t spent much time in the real world. They go to Scouts and Guides, which is good for a bit if wider mixing, but really they have little sense of much of the realities of life, and I think a complete education teaches you to mix effectively with all types. I worry a bit that’s been missed out, although we do try hard at home to give a sense of the bigger picture. Just saying this, because in my mind it’s not just that the state option has downsides (and with these super schools there aren’t many anyway) but also that there can be advantages too.

The gains of a great independent over a super selective fab grammar are there but marginal. Parents can get overly focused on the minutiae of 4 extra students per class, 2 extra rugby teams, a theatre (that their kid will never use) and build up this stuff in their minds so it becomes huge and somehow does justify £25k. Fine if you’ve got it just sitting there and dint need it.not so much if there will be an impact, and even if there won’t, lots of people decide that a house deposit of over 150k might just be a better use if the cash anyway.

Oh and 2 form tutors per 32 form class in Years 7 and 8, which then splits so there are 16 per form class in Year 9 onwards

Just to add - that is for Year 7 and 8 and for some subjects.
For DT, art and music it is 22; and for drama, cookery and public speaking enrichment, the class size is 16.
They then start GCSEs in Year 9 and the classes are 24 or fewer from then. Lower again at A-level depending on numbers.

Very similar again: Lower in the school Wilson’s has bigger class size (32) vs RGS (25).
Pastoral care seems very good at both schools. Lots of seminars on mental health, diversity and inclusivity. Really nothing much between them.

Interesting feedback @musicathome76..considering you have boys both at Independent and Grammar Schools. Apart from academics, what are your thoughts on pastoral care and overall development. Do you see much difference? And difference in class size?

@confusedmommy and others with Wilson’s/RGS/Hampton/KCL offers.
I have one at Wilson’s and two at RGS.
RGS/Hampton/KCL are amazing schools but cost a lot of money. If you have a choice of Wilson’s/Tiffin go there-they provide exactly the same amazing education for free. Wilson’s music and sport are also as great as top private school, especially football.

Thanks @WombatChocolate @travelturtle @hockeygrass and everyone else for your input - lots of food for thought.

We’re not supremely well off, and there would definitely be sacrifices, despite having only one DC to look after - also worry about what happens if our circumstances changed - can see that we need to work out where we draw the line for the value we see at Hampton. I was just surprised I guess to hear a current parent advising against The school.

I can see that having compromises everywhere else in life for the sake of a school won’t be giving DS the best life experience!

TBH if it was just about facilities, other schools would still be on the table, so it is the balance of stretch and extras were weighing up…DS just very keen on Hampton since seeing it. clocks ticking!

@confusedmommy My DS is at Wilson's - it's a brilliant school and we couldn't be happier. Two of his closest friends there chose it over KCS with no regrets. Feel free to PM me.

I agree that when you have a top super selective state grammar grammar offer and a full fees or small scholarship independent offer, the big determinant is money. Yes, the private school will have better facilities and smaller classes and probably provide a more comfortable experience, but £20k+ is a lot for that if you can get a top quality education, with a (in all liklihood) overall brighter cohort for free.

If you’ve got plenty of cash and sacrifices for school fees will be small or zero, then absolutely go for the fee paying option. If it means you’ll make sacrifices on your pension and have to work 5 years longer, or not have holidays, or it will impact the rest of the family, then I’d say it’s not worth the fees.

The second determining factor for deciding would be distance. If the state grammar is far away and a tricky journey, it can make the fees with paying….but only again if you can afford them with small or no sacrifices. A hideous long journey is worth avoiding if you can.

The super selective state schools do an amazing job on limited funding. Their cohorts a extremely bright and generally have less of a ‘tail’ than even the top independents. It’s simply down to numbers applying over place….the fact if fees always reduces the pool and so makes the school not quite so selective. The vast majority of kids in the super selective are from middle class backgrounds with supportive parents and similar aspirations for their kids to the independent schools. Often both sets of parents live next door to each other.

Given all these schools offer good academic education and great results are pretty much assured, you have to consider what your fees get you and if it’s worth them. There will be lots of lovely things. Their ‘worth’ largely depends on how much sacrifice you have to make to get them. If the fees mean small sacrifices such as only replacing your car every 4 years instead if every 3, or only having 3 holidays abroad instead of 4, or not building an extension you’d like, you might well be prepared to sacrifice those things for the facilities and rather different experience. The ‘cost’ in terms of lifestyle isn’t too great. If alternatively those £20k fees mean remaining in a hosue which is far too small, taking a second job, not having holidays for 5 years, stopping oension contributions….I’d say the ‘cost’ in terms of sacrifice is too high..but that’s a personal judgement. And if the cost of the fees means living intnhe edge so you fear your boiler breaking down and being able to replace it, I’d say someone would be mad to choose the independent option if they have a super selective state grammar offer.

Every year, middle class families who are comfortable in decent jobs, but who’s aren’t really well off face this dilemma. They receive their independent school offers first and often scholarship offers too, and sometimes even a small bursary offer. They love the independent schools, but when they get the highly sought after state grammar place they go for that. They know their kids will get a great education and the ‘nice to haves’ can be managed without, and that their current comfortable lifestyle can continue without the fee burden. Most don’t regret it.

@11Plus2022 I have no judgement either way whatever people decide is right for them, is right for them, but just posting to be aware of the changing situation.

I think this article describes it better than I did.

www.varsity.co.uk/news/20981

I'm not sure data even from a couple of years ago is going to be a guide for the future.

@Thisonesfortheroad personally I wouldn’t be drawn in too much into the discussion on the number of Oxbridge places. The choice between Tiffin and Hampton is a tricky one but ultimately (in my view) it comes down to a question of (1) your financial position and (2) what your DS’s preference is. If it’s a huge financial stretch to send to Hampton then I’d go for Tiffin. If not then Hampton on the basis that it offers much wider extra curricular options. FWIW we would pick Hampton given that choice, but everyone’s circumstances are v different. Good luck choosing! Remember the fact that your DS got an offer from both means he will do well at either (or elsewhere) so don’t stress too much!