Government has failed to evaluate potential harms to pupils

Bungle I don’t understand why it is so difficult for you to acknowledge the fact that although over 40s since Friday can now book, that doesn’t mean that they have been vaccinated.

Like many, I am over 40 but was only able to get my first appointment from Thursday 6th May (no appointments before then on the site, not that I was picky) and therefore, currently unvaccinated, which is a fact.

It is also a fact that even by 17th May, just 11 days after my jab, I will not be as protected as you claim, yet.

I also have Psoriasis which is an auto-immune condition. Probably why, when I caught Covid last year through schools, it only affected me in the most awful burning rash over my face and body. None of the other well known symptoms promoted by the gov and NHS. My GP theorises that catching it again could make my body response worse/dangerous, as is often the case with immune systems and allergies, for example, but because, (I assume) PHE have not really acknowledged this symptom, Psoriasis was backtracked from being included in group 6 unless you are on steroids basically or put on any shielding list.

Currently, I have three classes/close contacts in different year groups who had to start self isolating due to 3 positive tests from PCRs plus about 6 or so other pupils self isolating as a family member has it. It’s not gone away and although it’s wonderful to hear the stats going down, that is not much comfort to the young people and staff having to self isolate again currently. As always, they are forgotten about in other people’s desire to return back to normality. I mean, it’s as if no one else wants to return to how it was before but life isn’t like that.

I am personally grateful to be allowed masks in classrooms at the moment (acknowledging parents can exempt their children if they so wish) as an unvaccinated teacher in classrooms since March. I am fully supportive of them being withdrawn, just not right now, this minute.

Well, I'm arguing because suggesting that it's ok to remove masks in classrooms on May 17th because by then over 30s may have had vaccine bookings opened to them is basically the same crap argument that was made for opening schools with no mitigation measures on 8th March (which thankfully didn't happen) because 'the vulnerable will have been vaccinated by then' - redefining vulnerable to exclude group 6 and ignoring the fact that a lot of older people would not have been 3 weeks post jab by then. It also redefines vaccinated to 'has had their first jab'.

The vaccine dates didn't line up with 8th March and they don't line up with 17th May and I'm pretty fed up of people trying to make out that they do. If you want to argue for masks to be gone on 17th May in classrooms then find an argument that doesn't make out that teachers will either be immune, really young, or 'vaccine refusers' by then.

I’m not sure why people want to argue about this but they’re now saying 70% of all people on gov website. Above 62% is a week ago and England only I think and some devolved nations have done more. There is loads of vaccine available, if people are concerned about getting covid then I’d expect they’d be willing to travel to get it. About 95% of over 50s have had it already but I doubt that would be the same when it gets to the 21-39 group but it will be offered to them very soon,

COVID-19 Vaccination Statistics Week ending Sunday 25th April 2021
(Latest weekly release)

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/04/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-29-April-2021.pdf

Of the 2,941,890 vaccinations reported in the week ending 25th April, around one-fifth (637,559) were first doses. This took the total number of people vaccinated with at least one dose as of 25th April to 28,153,756 (61.9% of the population aged 16 and over1).
 The majority of vaccinations reported in the week ending 25th April were second doses (2,304,331). This took the total number of people vaccinated with both doses as of 25th April to 11,001,440 (24.2% of the population aged 16 and over1 and 39.1% of those vaccinated).

I was rather surprisingly (it surprised the doctor too) able to book a second vaccination via the doctor’s website some weeks ago, so naturally I took it. My official appointment was 29th April (naturally I cancelled it).
I teach, I’m 67 and have a heart condition so I was very pleased to be fully vaccinated, but I wouldn’t be fully protected even now had I not taken the early opportunity for the second jab.

Bungle 65% of adults have now had one jab coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations but you seem to be forgetting the vitally important fact that we have done vaccinations by age group from the top. There won't be many(any?) teachers in the 70+ age group which is why the % of teachers vaccinated is going to be lower than the overall percentage.
Yes there will be some group 6 teachers but not a significant number.

There has been something extraordinary like 95% uptake of the vaccine of those who have been offered it so far. (I accept that may be out of date and lower now age groups are lowering). It stretches credibility to think that teachers are going to have higher than average refusal rate considering the amount of people they have to mix with.

Bungle it's over 40 it be invited.
Just like Noble above, I've been invited, but cant get a slot until mid may. Well, I possibly could, but I wasnt prepared to drive 50 miles each way for it.

Where do you get the 7 out of 10 figure from? I thought that was doses, including second ones (so some people are in the figures twice), and the figure for at least one vaccine was in the 40s source

Teachers have a low average age in the uk, which would explain why so few as a percentage have been vaccinated.

Cheers, working!

Teen it's probably because some councils broke ranks, went against the govt and gave their spare vaccines to teachers as keyworkers. Some of the younger teachers would have been vaccinated in group 6 as well.

I just want to tip my hat to noble giraffe for their unrelenting defence of common sense.

Lets face it, most teachers are in the age range 22-62.
We have currently actually vaccinated down to 42 - only about half way down the actual teacher age range.
So although at first I was somewhat surprised that 41% of teachers are unvaccinated, when I thought about it, I was surprised it wasn't more like 50%.

There is no social distancing, unlike other places where people are currently wearing masks.

This is a really important point that many people don’t seem to understand. Possibly they have been misled by unrealistic depictions of classrooms in the media with five or six passive looking children sitting two metres apart in a very big room.

Not refusers, Bungle. I’m unvaccinated, I booked my vaccine as soon as I was able and it’s still not for a week and a half.

Being ‘offered a vaccine’ isn’t the same as being vaccinated.

I know, right!

Actually putting something down on paper (or whatever) would mean them actually taking some responsibility for their actions (or lack of)

When DfE update their guidelines I’d like them to outline the rationale and evidence base: both with respect to current covid risks to school staff and their families, and impact of masks on pupils’ learning and wellbeing.

We’ve done so many vaccinations that I don’t see May as unrealistic

But we're talking specifically about schools here where the kids are unvaccinated (and I don't know any CEV 12+ year olds who have had one), 41% of teachers are unvaccinated (so won't be 3 weeks post vaccination by May 17th) and where infections spiralled out of control last time schools were open without masks. I know we also have LFT testing but those are the only two mitigation measures. There is no social distancing, unlike other places where people are currently wearing masks.

People who are arguing about masks indefinitely generally are talking about on the bus or whatever, not in schools.

The OP seemed keen for a discussion

They absolutely didn't 😂

DS doesn’t mind wearing a mask. He feels happier with some restrictions in place at school, especially when they first went back.

The OP seemed keen for a discussion, wonder if they are coming back to engage in the points people are making?

I'll take a small negative association of mask wearing in secondary classrooms (with adjustments for hard of hearing students) over a massive negative association of remote learning (which despite the teachers greatest efforts is not the same as being in the classroom) and the social isolation caused by schools and/or bubbles closing.

I can imagine Teens. They annoy me too. I know all age groups have suffered and it’s not a competition but I have noticed that a lot of teens are really struggling with the transition to adulthood that is never easy but it’s really noticeable at the moment and the topic of conversation a lot with friends - especially those who have older DC as a comparison.

Anything at all that can be done to keep as many in school for as much as possible is a good thing in my book. It’s not just the education aspect, it’s their social development. I look forward to the day when discussions like this aren’t necessary and masks are a distant memory but I don’t feel we are there yet.