Private schools must take responsibility for boys behaviour outside

To this day, I have not found any evidence that there are more cases of sexual abuse in private schools than in state schools. The founder of the Everyone's Invited portal emphasizes that this problem concerns both private and state schools. She also mentions that: "we have seen a very significant increase in testimonials from state schools and universities across the UK".
Meanwhile, articles about 3-4 private schools are still appearing in the media. Still the same schools appear in the pictures. I did not meet in media reports that at least one state school was mentioned by name. Meanwhile, Everyone's Invited received more than 12,500 testimonials.

I am sure there were reports from boys affected on that website too.

Your first concern shouldn’t be whether it’s fair that there are different expectations of private schools.
Your first concern should be the girls affected.
Everyone in society who played a role in creating this toxic culture should want to do what they can to change it, including schools.
(My children are at a private school so I suppose I am allowed an opinion.)

The private school mine went to as day pupils out of school hours we were responsible, the boarders only 6th form were allowed out on a Saturday unescorted . I don't see how parents could be accountable when many were in a different country in term time or many miles away, House parents took the brunt then

Being held accountable and taking some responsibility are slightly different. If any school is aware of significant problems with its pupils they have a responsibility to help address it. Whether that be parental abuse, illegal behaviour, bullying etc. Any professional working with children is under an obligation to act on safeguarding issues. If kids are borders the schools obviously have a much larger remit in being aware of and controlling what the kids do in their spare time.

Agree about hero worship of sports teams! (Rowers and rugby teams!)

It is lazy journalism when you select a story but only present one aspect of it. Independent schools. There are abusive elements in state schools. It is lazy not to look at them too. Do the journalists not wonder why there are abuse reports from state schools too? Now there are millions of readers who think state schools are squeaky clean and it is independent school bashing time. Instead, the reporting web site shows this is not the case. Boys in state schools end up bullying girls/women too. And raping them. They might not have the wealth, but they have an entitled attitude.

The local girls in our girls' grammar threw eggs and flour at passing motorists on their last day. It was a passing out ritual - happened for several years. If anyone thinks bad behaviour is purely in independent schools - think again. I could tell you a lot more about risky behaviour of the state school DC I have come across. And yes they do have alcohol fuelled parties! Most people would be aware that drugs are widely available to all sectors of society too, not just a proportion of it.

I have not found the "hand them over" attitude in the independent schools my DDs attended. I have noticed that once DC get to grammar school, some parents back off parenting though. Job done - so to speak.

Parents were very much involved at our independent school and included in talks on drugs, alcohol, etc. The PHSE curriculum was shared with parents. I do agree some parents might like to hand over everything, (in both sectors) but that is not the way many schools operate these days. Many talk about partnerships with parents, gaining their views and working with them.

Private schools are in a difficult position. They have no remit to interfere with what goes on in their students' private homes. My DC was at an independent secondary on a scholarship, DH works at one.

Whilst a majority of students and parents were lovely, there were clearly many parents who did not parent their children. But at the same time some of those parents are too involved in orchestrating their child's friendships - many which will have been formed as their parents got friendly with other parents at the joining prep-school. It always looked like they were full of angst and buying popularity for their teenagers by throwing exclusive parties for them, alcohol featured from year 9.

In my opinion there is much more that private schools could do, and some of these are personal to my DC's school but likely to be more universal

Bring in more extra-curricular activities which foster co-operation and not just competition

Stop giving sports team such hero status. My DD tells me of the times a boy has been sanctioned for bad behaviour in class, only for it to be downgraded when he is need to play an A team rugby match

There are external organisations connected with sports that could be brought in to address boys and give them new role models and a better expected code of conduct.

Stop making feminism a dirty word. If girls want to set up a feminism club, don't make them change the name and tie yourself in knots to make it sound like it is a club to address the equality of everyone

I think some of this behaviour is more prevalent in private schools because the leaders of those schools had a similar education themselves.

Our local private school boys are entitled louts, I've had to phone the school more than once to complain about their behaviour, including flinging newspapers into the river. Sadly the school confers a sense of entitlement but not one of community.

The girls school pupils are fine.

We’ve just done the investigation into secondary schools (Dd is Y6) and looked at both private and state schools.

There is a very different ethos between the two with private schools feeling very much along the lines of “write a big cheque, hand your 11 year old over and we’ll do the difficult bit and give them back aged 18 when they’ll be marvellous” whilst the state schools were a lot more about how important parents were.

It was actually a major part in our decision to go with state to be honest - I don’t believe that the teachers at the private school - lovely as they seemed - can do a better job of raising Dd than we can.

@Walkingtheplank the OP turned this into a v debate by only allowing one type of person to comment on here. That just shuts down decent discussion at the outset.

This absolutely cant be turned into a state v private thing. It serves nobody.

I went to a Zoom talk recently where a woman told the very sad story of the abuse she received as a teen at home. How the Police hadn't helped and her state school had told her it could be worse and wouldnt help. But then, in her role as a trade union rep she felt the need to start criticising private schools for how they put profit above protectng their pupils from abuse - despite her just telling us that she got no help from her own state school. Left me baffled and by focussing her anger on private schools she let state of the hook.

All schools and parents must work together to help children to understand how to respect and value each other. It's a bit trickier in a boys only school but my son's school has been discussing how to model such behaviour. My daughters school has written to parents about how it teaches consent. What it didnt write about was that pupils will be believed. Perhaps that needs to be articulated.

My childrens schools have strict policies on how behaviour outside school that reflects badly on the school will be punished. I believe they work to make it clear what good behaviour is.

PPs have mentioned mission statements I agree, most schools, state and independent, have something on their website about nurtuting the model citizen of tomorrow. Let's not divide and rule on this important topic.

@PresentingPercy Agree this is school wide. Disagree it is lazy journalism - it is very effective journalism as it has generated huge awareness that hopefully will distill outwards. State schools will be looking to fee paying schools now for good practice - fee paying schools are very resilient and the masters of reinvention and I think they will be upping their game in a way the rest of education can look to for leadership.

Journalists know that humans are interested in extremes - horror stories about children in care, and horror stories about children in elite schools both are click bait. Sadly humans don't much like to read about the grey in betweens. Sometimes this suits fee paying schools and sometimes it doesn't - they will recover from this blip.

It’s just lazy journalism to focus on independent schools. It’s sidelining 90% of the issues!

Schools have responsibility to protect children on their way to and from school so Heads must take action if there is bullying.

Regarding illegal behaviour at parties. It’s difficult to see how the schools can be directly responsible. They do set the ethos within their schools and teach PSHE and relationship education. One would like to think they checked whether it had the desired effect. How do they know if the curriculum is appropriate if they never test it or get feedback on it?

Schools can have an “open door” policy where DC can report concerns and experiences to members of staff. At this point the school’s safeguarding procedures kick in.

The Designated Safeguarding Officer should discuss what action to take with the LADO. They must consider what to do with the DCs in school and whether the police should be informed. In some cases this will be an immediate call but areas of concern should be discussed if it’s not a straightforward decision or the victim doesn’t want to report it. The DSOs can get a lot of support and advice but they must act and record what they do. There is no difference in the safeguarding law between state and private education.

Anyone can report a criminal sex offence to the police. It doesn’t have to go via a school. It’s not clear why girls didn’t do this - in my opinion.

"Preparing every student to be a pillar of any community. By this we mean that we are focusing on developing students to be the very best they can be in all aspects of their lives not only through academic progress but also by developing the soft skills that will enable students to be successful in the world such as good manners and the ability to speak confidently combined with the desire to participate through sport, the arts and contributing to charity and community projects".

They all have mission statements, values etc. Agree not much different to private schools.

Love that the OP has started a thread about not wanting things limited to private schools but then wants to limit the answers to only those from private schools! I do have an opinion on all this but woe betide I express it here, what with being a state school parent and all.

@theblueflower I would say not much different . My son's school ( private ) said they want the pupils to behave in a sensible and responsible way & modest . It sounds similar .

@blueflower - I am one who utterly holds by - not every private school is great ( I've been to one - I know - it was rubbish ) and not every state school is rubbish - so many are great ) My son at Oxford knew very many who were at state schools - utterly great. The person who got the best degree in his year was from a comprehensive school - they are friends to this day

I do think it is a slightly disingenuous argument ( per se) to argue between state and private schools - because both can be better or worse

Please someone take up the argument - but do you see my point ? )

Our of interest, I've just googled the 'about us' page of our local comp. It says that its 'distinctive approach to education' seeks to enable pupils to 'achieve their utmost in terms of character'. The education at this school 'should be better and fuller than they would experience anywhere else'. How is this claim any different from what people are saying that private schools claim?

The main details from the article, looks reasonable to me:

She said schools should remember this in the fallout from the Everyone’s Invited sex abuse scandal, telling The Times: “When you sign your child up to an independent school, I’ve heard headmasters stand up and say to parents: ‘You need to feed your child and make sure they get enough sleep — we will take care of the rest.’

“Schools sell themselves on turning out the kind of gentleman you’d like to sit next to at dinner or that your daughter would bring home. If they’re going to make that kind of sweeping statement in marketing materials, they need to stand by that.”

One recent advert for a boys’ school says it helps boys to be “the best versions of themselves” so they can “become capable, courteous and caring” young men.

My Ds went to a private school and honestly honestly never saw harassment in the way it is now reported - doesn't not mean to say it never happened but he did not see it & school had a very very strict bullying etc policy. But just one school . Not every private school is dreadful.

I think most people would agree that abusive behaviour is prevalent and can be found in a lot of schools.

But the recent news shattered the myth that the prestigious private schools are better at "building character" than the state schools. Pastoral care at these schools can be as weak, judging from the bad experience of their female students.

I recommend it to read for everyone (link below) who thinks that this is a new problem that concerns only the best private schools.
Sexual harassment at school has always been a known problem. It takes place in every school. Students, parents, schools, the government, the media... are to be blamed here. It is extremely unfair to hunt a witch - to private schools. Harassment in private and public schools is the same crime and affects victims in the same way.
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmwomeq/91/91.pdf

Erm, what about the parents????

I send my kids to independent schools and at no point would I hold the schools accountable for stuff that happened in the evenings, weekends or holidays. That’s utterly bonkers.

Sure they have a role to play in creating the whole person, educating right from wrong and how to be a good citizen, but to be responsible for their actions off school premises?

I think a journalist needs to write about the alcohol and drug filled parties being held by children from our local independent which the parents (and their friends) attend on a “supervisory” basis. They are just as accountable for facilitating and enabling situations where this sort of behaviour can proliferate.

Abusive or unwanted sexual behaviours within school should be treated in the same way as they would if the student was caught with drugs. Both illegal but it seems only drugs consistently ends up with a suspension or expulsion.

Lots of state schools also claim to shape and mould their pupils' character (speaking as someone who has been to a lot of open events and read a lot of school prospectuses in the last few years). Have one at state and one at private.

In school, school's business.

Out of school - police business.

Locally the toxic masculinity / abusive behaviour is usually from boys (and girls) that don’t go to private school. The private school kids don’t get a chance to display any unsavoury behaviour in public as they get driven to / from school / classes / friends houses.