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I feel so angry reading 'Everyone's Invited' website about rape culture largely at private schools

232 replies

Bouledeneige · 26/03/2021 00:02

So I read the Dulwich College post and now the allegations about Highgate School on Newsnight. There are fulsome letters to both schools governors published online. They make for heartbreaking and stomach churning reading. I am so angry. I've just read the 'Everyone's invited' website and I can see how entrenched misogyny, rape culture, slut shaming, homophobia and racism are in the named school. - mostly private but a few selective.

And underling them all is a powerful suggestion that school leadership is all about 'boys will be boys', reputation management and 'there's two sides to every story'. So traumatised female students are forced into silence and reduced to walking the corridors with their abusers with lots of mockery and slutt shaming accompanying them. Its so disgusting - it is beyond anything that can be excused. Who on earth wants our sons to be recruited into this misogynistic and coercive rape culture or our daughters abused and living in fear of it?

I've stated my views on other threads. My kids went to a not so perfect state school in London. The big difference to these accounts is that they experienced a very 'woke' and 'right on' school culture that demonstrated a zero tolerance culture and empowerment of the female students. They were so empowered they actively and powerfully called out sexist, racist and homophobic behaviours and the perpetrators - boys - were called to account formally and informally. It was not a perfect school at all - there was drugs, sexual behaviour and bullying but the culture of the school was so zero tolerance it went beyond a few PHSE chats it was inculcated in the ethos of the whole school. the predominant culture was mature female and diverse voices,, backed by teachers and the leadership of the school articulating a mature and equitable world. To be fair I think the boys followed behind.

But I'm not focused on my DC's experiences. I'm absolutely choked that the Harvey Weinstein, rape assertive power dynamic is prospering in school environments. Its disgusting. I hope there is a root and branch review and parents start asking about the character that private and selective schools engender |not just the results. There's an old adage that a[rents of boys would prefer them to be civilised by being schooled alongside their female contemporaries but that girls do better in all female environments.

It is such a joke when we talk about equality in work environments when so many women have been exposed to these brutish rapey school environments. We will never change society if we don't change education. And we have to more actively prepare our young men for decent and egalitarian behaviour to women and our young women to be empowered to be empowered and seek retribution. But in the end it will be leadership in schools that have a primarily male culture that makes the biggest difference investigating and punishing out sexist and abusive behaviour and treating perpetrators in the same way as students accused of drugs offences. And secondly, peer pressure amongst young men at parties, on school buses and in classes that really calls out bad behaviour.- this is not who we are as men. It really, really matters. And parents can't leave it to someone else. They need to actively avoid school environments with toxic cultures and probe how they exert a zero tolerance egalitarian culture. Take action, remove your money and change the economy of private schooling.

OP posts:
Legoninjago1 · 28/03/2021 18:05

[quote happywombles]@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment![/quote]
Because of course you should assume that. I always have. The behaviour at DC sounds utterly vile and it's very good news that it's being addressed. But this relentless sensationalised focus on the private / state debate is taking the focus off where it should be and make little sods like the boy who tried to force his finger up inside my niece at her London comp, breathe a lot more easily than he should be.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 17:54

c'mon - why are people paying 25-30k per year for a private school in London. It is because they think of them as better - are concerned about gangs in state schools for their little boys, think it's the only way their kid will get into the right unis etc. I've been around London long enough. It doesnt take too much time to figure out people's reasons for going private. Parents in SW/W/N London very much do think quite badly about the local comps. So it's nice to be reminded that yes bullying and sexual harassment absolutley does happen everywhere

alongtimeagoin2019 · 28/03/2021 17:43

[quote happywombles]@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment![/quote]
I think it's only on mn that those assumptions are made on state schools. Most people realise there are good and bad of every type of school and different schools suit different children (if one has the luxury of choice).
Certainly lots of people I know made choices between the 2 based on lots of factors, not that they necessarily thought they were 'better' just because they were private.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 17:35

@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment!

alongtimeagoin2019 · 28/03/2021 17:29

Not shocked at all by any of it to be honest- more shocked that people think its only confined to private schools.
3 nephews at a boys only comp- they say a certain group of boys act the same there.
Friend teaches at a mixed rural comp and her 3 kids go there as well - same issues.
Relatives in Switzerland and Denmark- same at their kids schools. The girls have to put up with all sorts of stuff.

Legoninjago1 · 28/03/2021 17:20

@Shinealightonit

I am a state school student. You are all nuts if you think this doesn’t go on in state schools - myself and all of my friends have many stories. It’s hard to speak out as everyone would know who we are and our lives wouldn’t be worth living - We don’t have the protection of wealthy parents and newspaper coverage. Seriously wake up and think about why state school girls are less likely to come forward than private school girls. We need to be addressing this problem together as one society otherwise nothing will change.
Best post I've read on the subject. Says it all. Thank you.
Abitofaproblem · 28/03/2021 17:18

@happywombles
I have to admit I am really shocked. That said, I did not grow up in this country and live on the other side of London, so my knowledge of these schools are limited to websites/Mumsnet/league tables. I am not opposed to private schools or single sex schools, they got to be judged on individual basis, just like any other schools.

One thing I also noticed, is that a lot of the named schools starts from prep age and some of these boys might have been in the same school for a long time. The schools probably could have done more to nip behavioural problems in the bud and establish a better culture.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 17:07

@Abitofaproblem she is at the local comp but where we live lots of her friends go to well the usual suspects in SW London to be fair she's often friends with their sisters etc and gets invited because they are long-standing friends, she's a girl ..the usual. That was also my personal experience. And am not being goady - am genuinely surprised that people are that shocked. I mean lots of the parent who send their kids there - would themselves have been to a private school. Do they just not remember? Am not in any way defending that behaviour but there's a reason why DS will never in a million years be sent to a private boys school. It's not about the academics but the rest of it. I want him to learn humility not entitlement.

Blyatiful · 28/03/2021 17:04

My daughter, and four other girls were sexually assaulted by a boy at their school. It went to court, three of the girls testified, two gave statements but were too scared to testify.

The parents (one was a lawyer) dragged it out before it got to court - it took over two years. Their (no doubt very expensive) barrister kept cancelling it, to call new witnesses, on some technicality or another.

The judge criticised the length of time it had taken to get to court - although he described the girls as “credible witnesses” there were a few minor discrepancies in the stories. So the nice middle class boy in a suit is free to attack again. And he will. The police were shocked that he got off.

The assault on my daughter happened at a party. She hasn’t been to a party since. She suffers from extreme anxiety and depression and has had masses of counselling, none of which seems to have had much effect.

How did the school deal with it? Badly at first - the boy was allowed to stay at school and continued his harassment until the police intervened and told the school that they had to suspend him on safeguarding grounds. Most of the other boys were very supportive of the girls, and the boy was very much isolated and ostracised before he was suspended.

Some of the attacks were particularly vicious. I have no doubt that he will attack again.

catatecheese · 28/03/2021 17:03

My husband went to one of the very famous boys schools recently included in these claims.
He says he didn't witness anything along those lines whilst there. But did mention the very big drug and bullying issues they had. ( many expelled for drugs) some of his school friends are quite frankly arogent entitled and sexist. I will exclude DH in that description as he was probably a complete nerd at school. He also was not great with girls ( I should know as I remember him at 21). It also took me a few years to readjust his very warped view of the world. I was opened mouthed with horror at some of his early views of society!
In comparison I attended a awful girls school ( just the usual girls school bitchyness none of these issues) and then a local mixed comprehensive ( good area) I never experienced any bad behaviour from the boys, mild teasing but not of a sexual nature was as bad as it got. They were all respectful and worked happily alongside girls all are decent men today!

We send our sons to mixed state schools as we want well rounded decent humans who see women as equal when they grow up. I also know they are bright enough to achieve this anywhere without spending 41k a year each. I don't know why anyone thinks segregation is a good idea?

Abitofaproblem · 28/03/2021 16:58

@happywombles
Does your DD socialise with both boys at these private boys school and boys at the local comp? I am interested in how she comes to the conclusion that the private boys' behaviour are way worse.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 16:45

maybe but if I chat to DD and her friends - and drawing on my experience in SW London in the 90s - private boys schools were/are much much worse than the local coms. The sense of entitlement and superiority in the private ones was unparalleled in my local comp.

ListeningQuietly · 28/03/2021 16:38

This affects ALL schools

and safe spaces for girls - properly Sex segregated toilets and changing rooms
should be available to ALL pupils

happywombles · 28/03/2021 16:35

@HelloMissus - it's about a sense of entitlement, specialness and the idea that you are somehow privileged....often when it comes to teenage boys this does translate to sexual misconduct. So no it is not about these schools being private but about them instilling this sense of entitlement in boys. we often think this is a really good thing - i.e. confidence, competitiveness, wanted to get ahead etc...but in the current culture realistically what do teenage boys want to most get ahead in....?

SoupDragon · 28/03/2021 16:33

i think that is in part a private school issue because these boys keep being told how special they are and lets be honest for a teenage boy being special is very closely related to sex. It's also a terrible idea to send boys to an all-boys school - it means they only ever see girls are sisters or sex objects with nothing in between.

That's simply not true.

HelloMissus · 28/03/2021 16:19

Saying this is a private school issue is ridiculous.
This is a societal issue caused by men and boys.
Not a special 7% of men and boys with the other 93% behaving appropriately.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 16:02

i think that is in part a private school issue because these boys keep being told how special they are and lets be honest for a teenage boy being special is very closely related to sex. It's also a terrible idea to send boys to an all-boys school - it means they only ever see girls are sisters or sex objects with nothing in between.

but this has been the same way for ever.....why are people surprised

PresentingPercy · 28/03/2021 13:19

ISI is external scrutiny. However I think they can be very swayed by the gloss of a school. They cannot find incorrect safeguarding if no girl reports anything. I accept some have and these should have been considered by isi to ensure the policy works. ISI used to give a lot of notice regarding visits. Not sure if they do now, but they should be the same as Ofsted in all respects.

PresentingPercy · 28/03/2021 13:15

Schools should have a Multi Agency Referral form as part of their safeguarding procedures. State and private schools. The referral process is the same. There are between 5 and 9 times more DC in state schools. You would expect referrals to be greater from state schools due to the number imbalance. The Police cannot possibly say whether schools have not referred cases just yet. They haven’t investigated anything. The LADO for each authority would have more knowledge.

It’s true that most Safeguarding looks at the relationship between adults and pupils. However the legislation can be used for other inappropriate activity. It’s likely the schools have not recognised this. I would say the government will be altering the requirements of safeguarding to clearly spell out its sexual complaints of any nature and committed by any person, adult or DC.

dameofdilemma · 28/03/2021 10:57

Of course it isn’t solely a private school issue but logically you do wonder why private schools, with all the increased resources available to them, with their higher staff/pupil ratios, with fewer pupils from vulnerable backgrounds etc - all those advantages over state schools and they still can’t do better?

Or do they just not see it as important as getting all those A* and Oxbridge offers?

The Met police themselves have said they have less involvement with private schools as compared to state schools (see today’s Observer). Ofsted only inspect around half of private schools.
So I don’t think it’s accurate to say that all schools have external scrutiny to the same extent.

PresentingPercy · 28/03/2021 10:46

This gives some details. Cannot fit everything in but there is action. However Safeguarding procedures are key.

I feel so angry reading 'Everyone's Invited' website about rape culture largely at private schools
I feel so angry reading 'Everyone's Invited' website about rape culture largely at private schools
PresentingPercy · 28/03/2021 10:41

The news this morning is that Ofsted and ISI are doing unannounced inspections. That the police are asking for girls to come forward to give evidence. So there is some action.

PresentingPercy · 27/03/2021 19:43

You cannot exclude a child on allegations alone. There has to be some evidence of you could have malicious allegations. As some DC do against teachers. The parents could get lawyers involved and win if there is no investigation. As I have said, there does not need to be the level of proof required in court but someone accusing another child should not lead to immediate permanent exclusion. It must be investigated in accordance with the law on exclusion from school.

I strongly suggest a number of posters should read a safeguarding policy too. It is not the same as bullying. There are procedures laid down and external agencies involved. This is because sexual assault is criminal. Safeguarding is taken seriously in all schools if complaints are made. Parents can go to the police if they wish with their DDs and make criminal allegations too. Anyone can go to the police regarding assault. A school cannot stop you.

I can see schools have taken a light touch regarding this and it will change now. Some Boys need to be urgently Re-educated.

humptydumpty21 · 27/03/2021 18:49

@Notenoughsleepmumof3 Agree 100%. Bullying has been going on for decades in schools and never really gets resolved. Most of the serious cases end up with the victim leaving the school, which is is crazy! This is a whole different level, these poor girls. Even as adults I think we sometimes brush off things too easily in order to keep the peace, imagine being a young girl and deciding that was the best option. I am glad they are speaking up and I sincerely hope the schools pay attention and do something about it. Unfortunately, I think they will come up with policies/processes/in-house care, which actually means nothing will really be done.
In these cases, I think any allegation should be a direct exclusion from school. In sends out a clear and direct message. Unless there are repercussions, these incidents will carry on. Just as bullying has for decades and left adults scarred.

HamFisted · 27/03/2021 18:44

I have no experience of private schools, but the special measures state school I attended was incredibly woke in terms of the students' attitudes.