Dulwich College a “breeding ground for sexual predators”

People with kids in a variety of academic places, and and as you say, more than ever the papers know where the clicks are coming from and who’s sharing the articles ...

@strugglinginswlondon. it is PEOPLE who are interested in extremes and polar opposites, and newspapers who provide them with what they want. Newspapers are, more than even, able to tell what their customers like reading (analysing clicks) and give them what they want.

It strikes me that the press are very interested in the polar opposites - most elite parts of society (Eg DC) and also the more deprived parts of society (eg Rochdale). Anything that involves the chattering middle classes with kids in a variety schools both state and private, are mainly discreetly filed away somewhere (but discuss rampantly on social media about the others ‘thank goodness it doesn’t go on at our school! We’re so liberal!’)

This may well be true, but in fairness to The Times weren’t they the ones who exposed the Rotherham scandal several years ago?

"@KillingEvenings I think the reason it fits with the press news values is that people often expect issues at state schools but fee paying schools market themselves as places where these issues are avoided and yet so many of their customers - the pupils - are saying that they didn’t live up to their side of the business arrangement and did not protect them and even covered up. One thing we all agree on is that fees are unbelievably expensive, and that is why it becomes news, because people do not expect this at places where they spend eye wateringly large amounts of money.
No one is saying it doesn’t happen elsewhere"

I absolutely agree with this.

Nimbus is right. Nobody cares about the kids who can’t get an appointment at CAHMS in State School.
They choose not to see the kids being bullied, the county lines kids, the knife crime, the child carers, the kids who aren’t being fed or clothed properly.
It’s as if this doesn’t exist if the journalists don’t see it.
Schools are crumbling, falling down through lack of investment, class sizes are ridiculous. But we keep voting these people in who just don’t care.
Change needs to happen in society about online porn, attitudes towards women and girls, rape culture..... and so much more.
Where do we start !! ?

@KillingEvenings I think the reason it fits with the press news values is that people often expect issues at state schools but fee paying schools market themselves as places where these issues are avoided and yet so many of their customers - the pupils - are saying that they didn’t live up to their side of the business arrangement and did not protect them and even covered up. One thing we all agree on is that fees are unbelievably expensive, and that is why it becomes news, because people do not expect this at places where they spend eye wateringly large amounts of money.
No one is saying it doesn’t happen elsewhere - they are saying the business proposition and marketing model of these schools is grossly flawed. And they are also saying that in a London the schools don’t have a good SafeSchools set up with the Met. Why?

Nimbus is spot on.

I also think too much is being made of the regulatory oversight provided by Ofsted. Private schools still have to have safeguarding personnel and procedures. Yes, Ofsted can be called in if there is a specific concern, but it doesn't happen often. Routine Ofsted inspections are very infrequent and generally brief, and could easily fail to spot a safeguarding concern (although they will take it seriously if they find one). Some schools haven't been inspected for a decade.

I think the difference between state and private is that Headteacher Brown at State School isn’t going to lose £30k if Boy has to leave because of an allegation.

this specific complaint began with one person who went to the press rather than the school

Isn't the point that these complaints were taken to the school and/or witnessed by teachers and were either ignored/dismissed or not appropriately escalated through safe-guarding channels?
Or have I missed something? (it's a very long thread!)

I think what has been proven is that nobody really cared what has been happening in state schools. Bring ‘top’ private schools into it and that is a game changer.
Speaks volumes really.

I think it’s been ably proved on this thread that even though parents of state school children are aware that there are unacceptable behaviours in private schools, and often have names, they’d rather use that information to tar those who are at private schools or send their children to them, rather report and protect children, particularly young, teenage girls.

Additionally, I’ve seen many comments on hear saying ‘that doesn’t happen at my children’s (normally state) school - they are very liberal’. In the words of a popular Tiktok sound ‘that’s some b* right there. Part of helping change for good is that we all acknowledge it happens everywhere. We should all be self reflecting on his complicit we’ve been in normalising this culture and what we are going to do in terms of talking to our children.

I started with talking about porn to my 15 year old on her way to rowing camp.

They definitely did at my children’s school , they also had a programme of talks which started as young as year 7 which focused on pornography, sexual health, drugs , and consent consent consent. The programme included sessions for both the sexes together and apart.

These talks especially from year 9 upwards where the issues became more complex were accompanied by education sessions usually the evening after or before for parents . It was depressing how few parents bothered to attend these sessions.

Yes, they do.

Do the police come into private schools and talk about online safety and sending indecent pictures etc?

'First time buyer' here, and someone who read lots of MN education threads when deciding whether to go private. I agree with @KillingEvenings that most (not all) of the comments about avoiding 'bad' (shorthand) kids come from anti-private school parents about why they think other parents send their kids to private school. Also, when parents do express these opinions, it's often a bit more nuanced than that - what they're trying to avoid is the kind of 'bad' behaviour that can openly disrupt class and school life (chair-throwing or persistent disruption in class, fights in the corridors etc). And they're to some extent right that you can pay to avoid that kind of behaviour - certainly at DS's school those kinds of incidents just don't occur, not ever. I have a friend who teaches at the same school, and he says the same as we've experienced - the worst 'disruption' you will ever get is a bit of a chatty class, and the 'punishment' system is basically never used to deal with disruptive or violent behaviour in school because it just never happens. But I don't think many parents think that that means that all private school kids are paragons of virtue - that bullying, sexual or otherwise, can't occur. I really don't think many parents are that naive.

FWIW as someone who now has kids in both state and private, my observation is that the 'undesirable extremes' are different, but similarly small. At private secondary, there's a very small minority of kids who seem very entitled and arrogant, and like to flash their wealth in a pretty unpleasant way. At state primary, there's a very small minority of kids who live with very few boundaries at home and who talk about and show violent games and pornography, and in one case brag (I suspect accurately) at school about seeing drugs and guns at home (before anyone asks, yes, reported and school aware). Neither of these groups are people I'd be happy influencing my kids. Both of them I would believe capable of pretty unpleasant real life behaviour. But look outside those extremes in both schools, and what you will find is a very large majority of lovely, normal kids.

But when it boils down to it it, that's all we have here isn't ?

Yes and no - this specific complaint began with one person who went to the press rather than the school. Whose response seems to have been rapid, extensive and appropriate. We do not what it would have been like if reported to the school in the first instance.

What else we have is the thousands of accounts on EI. Of which the founder stated in the BBC that the initial apparently higher incidence towards private schools is a relic of how the site started and who heard about it first. Now that everyone's head of it, it's clear that both sectors, and also universities, have just as grave a problem

You will never ever hear parents who come from generations of privately educated family members saying they pay because they wish to avoid other DC. In their worlds, they don’t meet them and DC in state schools are simply not on their radar. The granny of a first time buyer is totally different!

Having worked for a LA and been responsible for trying to find state pupils new schools after they had been permanently excluded, I can assure some of you posting you wouldn’t have wanted your DC to be on the receiving end of their violence either! Believe me.

That wasn’t a reason why we swerved state schools and I’m more than aware such behaviour wasn’t common but most private school parents choose private for the breadth of education and many because it’s what they know. First time purchasers need to explain why they want private and will say it’s to avoid other DC. But they are a minority and I think over the years I met one set of parents who thought like this. It isn’t about avoiding other DC for most.

My DDs were primary state educated. I have no issue with state schools or the DC in them.