Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

STEM degrees (without A level chemistry)

63 replies

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 30/01/2021 21:57

DS is in Y12 and doing maths, physics, biology A levels. He was planning on doing physics at university, but really only loves the bits about space, so is not particularly enjoying the A level (and not doing that well at it either).

When I suggested that he could look at other degree options if he wasn't sure about physics he just sighed and said, but what else could I do?

Slightly dramatic I know, but I think he's a bit sad that things aren't turning out how he thought they would. So any suggestions that might perk him up would be gratefully received. And despite the thread title, doesn't really have to be STEM. I'd just like to show him that there are loads of options for him to explore, things he's never thought of or maybe even never heard of. 🤞

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
ListeningQuietly · 03/02/2021 17:40

Does he like coding?
as there is A LOT of coding in degrees like physics and engineering
(a lot a lot a lot)

EwwSprouts · 03/02/2021 17:10

Love the fractions tale. You can see how that would happen.

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 21:17

@EwwSprouts

Can your DS talk to a friend about the exercises? DS sometimes does maths homework with a friend on speakerphone. They talk through the question and are both working on it. I was a bit dubious but it's no different to sitting next to someone in a 6th form common room and they are both contributing thoughts (DS studies downstairs so I have overhead bits).
Yes I think I will sound him out about this. It would definitely work for biology as his bestie is in the same class and they did the last piece of homework together chatting on the Xbox and did well in it. I'm not sure who is in his maths and physics classes but will see if there's anyone he could ask. He has said it was better working in his frees at school because there was always someone else there and he didn't want to give up or not bother in front of them.

I am laughing now, remembering that this same bestie was his maths partner at primary school and they had a deal worked out for fractions questions - the friend would decide what they needed to do and DS would do the actual sums. Consequently he managed to get to Y7 without knowing how to add fractions by himself 🤦‍♀️
(Can recommend Carol Vorderman's books if anyone finds themselves in the same position Smile)

OP posts:
EwwSprouts · 01/02/2021 20:45

Can your DS talk to a friend about the exercises? DS sometimes does maths homework with a friend on speakerphone. They talk through the question and are both working on it. I was a bit dubious but it's no different to sitting next to someone in a 6th form common room and they are both contributing thoughts (DS studies downstairs so I have overhead bits).

ErrolTheDragon · 01/02/2021 20:35

But by the end he was integrating away happily and racing me to find the answer.

Hurray! Well done him - and you!

Scottishskifun · 01/02/2021 20:16

Any of the biology/environmental science degrees don't need chemistry you do a chemistry module first semester which used to be the equivalent of a C/D A level chemistry
Other suggestions would be renewable energy degree there are a few places which offer this. Very much about the industry but also trying to improve designs or new designs.

One very much not considered by teenagers but almost a sure job after is environmental health there is a serious lack of EHO in the country!

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 20:08

I wondered about nuclear engineering - I'd imagine that sector can only grow in the next few years. Surveying and planning are good ideas too, thank you. I think the summer is definitely the time for some proper thinking and research, but if he gets despondent about a future without physics, I can show him such a huge range of possibilities now.

He has attended all his lessons today and managed one catch up piece of work so that's a great start. It was maths, I sat with him and cheered him on while he was doing it but he just didn't believe he could do it. His confidence is shot basically, the whole idea of sitting down and working through something difficult just made him so uncomfortable, it was painful to watch. But by the end he was integrating away happily and racing me to find the answer. A long road ahead but hopefully we'll get there. Thank goodness it's these subjects and not humanities, where DH and I would be no use at all Blush

OP posts:
MaverickDanger · 01/02/2021 19:27

The British were actually the pioneers in the nuclear civil industry, so there is a hell of a lot of knowledge still remaining, and with the new EDF/CGN input, there are a significant number of training courses, degree apprenticeships etc.

There will be guaranteed, high paying work for the next 15-20 years minimum in the UK, opportunities to travel & work abroad.

Could be one to consider as an MSc after another engineering bachelors.

PresentingPercy · 01/02/2021 18:59

Sadly the Brits are not world leaders in nuclear engineering. I think the French are! So opportunities might be limited not to mention courses.

I did have further thoughts though. A very great friend of ours owned a landscape achitecture company. Sheffield is a great university for that. There is also surveying. Often a fist degree in something relevant is needed but there are lots of branches of surveying. Also quantity surveying. Planning might be of interest too. That makes a big difference to the environment.

MaverickDanger · 01/02/2021 14:29

Nuclear engineering is going to be an interesting field to get into for work over the next 20 years, with Hinkley & Sizewell.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/02/2021 14:15

Ladyvimes is probably right (how could I possibly disagree with her?!Wink) - I think the main use of this thread to the OP and her DS is to know that there are a load of different options with his subjects other than physics in general or space physics in particular. The summer vacation can be a good time to dive into the details - usually of course there are uni open days, this year they may be virtual but that probably makes it easier to sample more (both different unis and courses).

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 14:14

Thanks @Iwant2move - engineering does sound like a great degree and career, with so much variety in the field and opportunities elsewhere. He's not anti chemistry, he started Y12 doing 4 subjects with chemistry as well because he couldn't decide between that and biology. He thought he'd try both and see which he liked best, but it was a close call. So I'm sure he'd be happy with some chemistry content.

OP posts:
BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 14:10

@ladyvimes

I wouldn’t be thinking about university yet as it sounds like it’s just extra pressure that he can’t deal with at the moment. You’ve plenty of time, especially if he takes a gap year. You need to focus on right now, getting him caught back up and back on track. Is it the work he’s struggling with or more his mental health? I would leave worrying about it for now and focus on it this time next year when you’ll have a better idea of what his grades will be.
Thanks @ladyvimes yes I think you're right. It was in response to his sad "but what else could I do" that I posted for ideas, but there's plenty of time and no need to worry about it yet. I will only talk to him about it if he's worried about it now iyswim, but there are so many great suggestions here, I'm sure he will be enthused.

I think part of the problem is simply the step up to A level. He has never found anything this difficult and has a tendency to just give up rather than try to puzzle things out. But he's also missing having his friends around and other people who are going through the same thing I think. I spoke to his year tutor (also his maths teacher) and she said quite a few of them are struggling and the teachers can't offer a lot of the usual support that they usually would, like mentoring and extra sessions. That will all pick up again when they go back to school but for now we will try to get him back on track. 😬🤞

OP posts:
Iwant2move · 01/02/2021 13:49

My son is studying for an M.Eng in Mechatronics at Lancaster. He did not take chemistry A level. He did chemistry in his first year at university though (they studied all aspects of engineering).
He was offered an internship interview at AMG in his second year but couldn't attend due to personal reasons.
He spent a year in industry with Airbus, which he thoroughly enjoyed. He should have had a summer internship studying robotics in the nuclear fuel industry but Covid stopped that.
There are options without chemistry. He should follow his interests if he can. The first year of a STEM degree is a baptism of fire according to my sons. (The middle one did Physics at Lancaster and he loved physics).

ladyvimes · 01/02/2021 13:41

I wouldn’t be thinking about university yet as it sounds like it’s just extra pressure that he can’t deal with at the moment. You’ve plenty of time, especially if he takes a gap year. You need to focus on right now, getting him caught back up and back on track. Is it the work he’s struggling with or more his mental health?
I would leave worrying about it for now and focus on it this time next year when you’ll have a better idea of what his grades will be.

PresentingPercy · 01/02/2021 13:34

You also have to factor in that lots of engineering grads end up in finance or the City. It can be big headache for SME's to get the right people. Engineers are solutions people and can do very well outside engineering. Only one of DD's friends who did engineering at university is actually an engineer. Very many do not do Engineering after Oxford, for example. It is a very flexible degree but as the best ones are 4 years you have to prefer it to, say, Management.

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 12:44

@ErrolTheDragon

Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk

There will probably be a load of graduates from last year and current aero students marking time with MScs and PhDs wanting jobs in the next few years too.

On a different slant - one of the great things about STEM degrees is that you may develop an interest in some branch while you're doing it which you wouldn't know about at school, or which maybe doesn't even exist yet! I've been doing a job for over 30 years which really wasn't a thing when I was at school. A degree can be a stepping stone on a defined path, but more likely it opens out to lots of different destinations.

DH made exactly this point when we were chatting last night - nobody on R4 The Life Scientific seems to be working in the field they picked as undergraduates!
OP posts:
BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 12:43

Thank you Percy, I think you're right about Brian Cox. And for your great suggestions.

OP posts:
SabrinaThwaite · 01/02/2021 12:04

There are a few Energy and Environmental Engineering or Civil and Environmental BEng degree courses.

Friend with an aeronautical engineering degree is now a safety specialist, friend with a mech eng degree works as an environmental / renewables specialist.

SquishySquirmy · 01/02/2021 11:25

Of course, Aeronautical or Aersopace Engineering by no means has to lead to a career in the aviation industry!

I have found that an engineering degree from a good university can get you a job in a completely different industry to your degree title. So even the niche sounding ones can be quite general - Aeronautics for example will include some mechanical modules, but also electrical, materials, group design projects, etc. These will be relevant to a range of different industries.

A good engineering (or other stem) degree can get you onto some amazing graduate programs in non-engineering industries.

So if your son's interest is piqued by a certain area, then I would say go for it. Most Engineering degrees are by no means a commitment to a specific career, and my experience has been that an engineering degree keeps options open.

Renewables might be another growth area to consider - although I don't think there are many undergraduate degrees that specialised in renewable engineering yet. There are some post graduate masters courses appearing though, which could be done after completing a different BEng.

I think there may be some good apprenticeships in the renewable energy industry, perhaps wind in particular if you think your son would be interested in an alternative to a degree. (Would he like the opportunity for hands on work, sometimes outdoors in the elements? Does he like heights?)

ErrolTheDragon · 01/02/2021 10:40

Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk

There will probably be a load of graduates from last year and current aero students marking time with MScs and PhDs wanting jobs in the next few years too.

On a different slant - one of the great things about STEM degrees is that you may develop an interest in some branch while you're doing it which you wouldn't know about at school, or which maybe doesn't even exist yet! I've been doing a job for over 30 years which really wasn't a thing when I was at school. A degree can be a stepping stone on a defined path, but more likely it opens out to lots of different destinations.

SabrinaThwaite · 01/02/2021 10:25

The Life Scientific episode with Prof Chris Jackson is worth a listen.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r3n0

PresentingPercy · 01/02/2021 09:56

My DH is a civil and structural engineer. Civil also looks at drainage and environmental solutions. You could also look at Environmental science. There is a great demand for environmental design in this country. Also aeronautical engineering will take years to get back on track due to Covid. Could be a risk. Civil engineering isn’t overly competitive at lower ranking RG universities.

There is also building services design. Air conditioning etc. None of these are discovering anything but they are solutions to problems. Particularly environmental engineering.

Geology is a good shout too. Plenty of work for them. I sometimes think young DC see Brian Cox and think that’s what they want without realising the hoops they go through to get to his specialism.

Murmurur · 01/02/2021 09:06

He clearly has great support at home, which is an excellent start in itself. Best of luck to him.

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 01/02/2021 08:39

More great suggestions, thanks everyone. Earth sciences sounds fascinating to me.

I think he's hoping to avoid redoing Y12 @3aday. I've contacted his year tutor and asked to speak to his teachers. We are in Wales so he will get an AS grade this year, decided by his school. That's the bad news as they are unlikely to be good. But you can choose whether the AS grades become part of the final A level grade, so that might help. Plus if he gets his act together and does better in Y13 he could always take a year off and apply with grades in hand if his predictions are not great.

But yes you're right, first step is definitely a chat with the teachers. They have a rule that if something is handed in late it won't get marked, so I need to persuade them to mark all the stuff he hasn't done. He has woken up today feeling positive and his goal today is to do everything set in his lessons plus one piece of catch up. 🤞

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.