11+ independent schools entrance exams next week - now remote!

Look up atom learning on Vimeo as there is a video on school interviews.

Can anyone give helpful hints on zoom interviews?

What will/did your child wear? School uniform or something smart?

Someone wrote that having a post-it note placed above camera was a good idea so child remembers to look directly at camera and not person.

Thanks both. I was a bit worried.

Unfortunately with the last assessments for my son's school report they pulled him out of class to help elsewhere and then realised he had missed assessments and then made him sit them all at once. I only know because his results were not up to scratch and they were like don't worry we made a mistake abs should bot have allowed him to sit a week's assessment over a day .. but they were not going to change them or right anything about it in the school .. so for a private school entry he may look below par. But he has done very well at 11 plus.

Thank you @Oceane11Plus and @annahavana, that's really helpful.

I agree re the state/indie candidates. Someone on another thread also commented that indie secondary registrars are very experienced and they are well aware that some prep schools are just very good at talking up candidates/providing excellent references etc, in a way a state primary may not. Even though a state candidate could well be superior academically to the prep one.

They also know that many prep schools will also prepare candidates rigorously for the exams in a way a state school child will probably not be able to match even if they have a tutor. The clue's in the name I guess, that's what prep school parents are paying for, to have DC "prepped" to pass the 11+ or common entrance! There's a prep school near us for example that set an hour's 11+ prep homework per night from the start of Y5 and I can't imagine that they're the only one...

So it's about levelling the playing field for state school children, not making it harder.

To add (because that makes it sound like they're just doing state primary kids a favour), it's also because they know that there are very clever and talented kids in the state sector, and they want to recruit those with the most potential into their schools.

Possibly not as strict as an actual ratio, but some independent secondary schools will seek to ensure a certain proportion of their entrants come from the state sector (for reasons of balance, social inclusion, widening opportunities etc). To achieve this, they will admit some children who perform less well on paper, to recognise the fact that they won't have been prepared for the exams by their schools, and won't have benefitted from references prepared by experienced headteachers. It's designed to make it more fair for state school applicants, not harder.

But please expand in what you mean by the proportion between state and private applications - is there a ratio? So private school kids at an obvious advantage as their school may be a feeder school or be more used to advocating for their pupils?

Thank you @Oceane11Plus. Very well said!

Unlike others on these threads I don’t worry too much about the “unfairness” of the process post all the U-turns.

1. Regarding the reference - I was told by a registrar once that they mainly look at Y5 and Y6 reports with grades/achievements and teachers’ comments as this will be more “objective” that the head’s final referral. One of my older DCs state school NEVER sent back the reference request despite multiple requests from the registrar who then called me and asked me to send them Y5 and 6 reports. They told me it was more than enough! In many other countries selective secondary schools select solely via school reports which makes the system much simpler and fairer in my view...

2. They also look closely at CAT scores (for those who provide it).

3. Independent schools have a relatively fixed proportion of private vs state applicants every year. I strongly believe they will keep this proportion constant this year and just look at state vs private applicants as two completely different pools and rate them within their pool.

4. To some extent the new system might make it easier for independent schools to select DCs with genuine ability, who’ve had consistently good results since Y4/5, whereas the former system would “favour” those perhaps less able who are crammed with papers in the weeks and months preceding the written exams.

5. I agree this last minute change in the rules of the game can be upsetting but as parents we should set an example for our DCs in the way we react and adjust, and try and turn it into a positive. They’re all in the same boat after all. It’s an opportunity to teach them resilience, a skill which will serve them more in life (professional & personal) than their academic achievements. When I told DD the FHSS test had been cancelled, I straight away “sold” it to her as a positive (no pointless VR/NVR practice this week, more time to think about interviews, school report/CATs will play an important role etc). Really sorry if this comes across as patronising, it’s obviously not the point.

Yes, you can but in reality would you? I don’t think either school would look on you very kindly if you did. Though I have been tempted...

PatoPato If you ask for a copy of it they are legally obliged to provide it

Am also laughing about fees!

I've always wondered what is in these 'school references' as I have no idea at all. They are thing of great mystery at our school. I'd pay money to see what's in ours.

My very tiger sister-in-law who has been through it 3 times with her now teenage children told me that one of the public schools she applied to asked the preps (some of which were very much feeders) to rank their applicants in order of who they though was most suitable for the school. I was completely by this and still can't actually believe it.

Thanks! You made me lol re the fees 😂😂

Otherwise - attendance and behaviour

It's common for state primaries to not provide references so I don't think they matter much

Hello!

Just popping over from the girls indie thread to express support/mutual frustration..

As pp have said I think ability to cheat (and desire to do so) is relatively low. Most parents want their child to be given a fair chance to demonstrate what they are capable of and they have all worked so hard.. from a personal perspective there’s no way DD’s chances would be improved by me helping her.. she’s far better at maths than me!

DD has already undertaken 2 pieces of parental invigilated creative writing at home and tbh it was really tricky as she didn’t understand the fixed time scales and how a piece of work written under exam conditions wouldn’t look the same as one written up in ‘best’ at school. We had a tug of war at the end of the first one with her sobbing and refusing to submit something ‘shoddy’ and me having to enforce the boundaries and say “tough!”

I’m hoping with a third party invigilator this will be easier, but it’s still hard to get them in the exam mindset. I really feel for those who don’t have a suitable home environment or limited tech.. how is this levelling up?

I think both schools and parents are trying to make the best of a tough situation, and as pp said, it’s a great life lesson in resilience and flexibility. It’s definitely worth running a ‘mock’ if you are homeschooling this week and have a strategy in place if there’s a meltdown.. plus a big bribe and something fun planned for after!

I hear St Paul's girls have abandoned the exam altogether and are basing it on a zoom interview. At least your son is sitting an exam. My son is doing the same one as yours. We tested positive for Covid on Boxing Day. But he's going to do the exam, at home on Tuesday, no excuses or special dispensations. What will be will be. I'm not sure what you're looking for from this thread. Your son is no harder done by than anyone else

Thank you @annahavana! I think our state school
is quite practised at reports as quite a few children apply for indie schools every year. But obviously us parents never see them! We were asked to send in details of out of school activities/ achievements etc. But I also assume they can’t write a negative report so I assume there just be an element of ‘code’?

notomisogyny it's a combination. And again, don't forget that registrars are very experienced and good at not only seeing through references from prep schools but also understanding that state schools are less experienced at writing them (and may refuse altogether). We also went through this experience from a state school, and were given lots of reassurance about this from the school. If your primary either refuses to write a reference or you suspect it might not include what it needs to, you might have the opportunity to provide things yourself like previous school reports and your own summary of your child's interests and achievements? In a way, the private school process can be kinder to a state applicant than eg a state grammar entrance process, because an independent school has the leeway to look at the whole child, and to consider all the data they have in light of the school the child attended, rather than being obliged to rigidly use a single result from an exam that a prep school might have endlessly drilled for.

I really don't think I'd be worrying too much about cheating. I imagine it's pretty difficult to do, certainly to an extent that's going to make a huge amount of difference. I mean, how would you actually do it? Stuff secretly pinned on the wall isn't really going to help a candidate that much, without knowing the questions in advance, and if you've got loads of English and maths stuff pinned up then it's going to be pretty obvious if a child is frequently referring to it. If there's no parent in the room then they can't give answers - and again, if they're secretly in the room then I can't see how they can give very much help without it being incredibly obvious. I just can't believe many parents would have the balls to try cheating, particularly as this is a new situation for everyone, so no one will have thought much about it in advance. As for the risk of you being accused of cheating, again, I don't see how a school could do this without some pretty concrete evidence - so just make sure you stick scrupulously to the rules and procedures and I'm sure you'll be fine.

In a way, if your son has to meet a fixed score to get a place, then I would see that as an advantage. Where there isn't a fixed score, then a registrar might decide that one very good exam score in the context of a child who perhaps hasn't performed so well previously might not be enough to trump another child who has a slightly lower score on the day but a more consistent performance in previous assessments. But if the school has already said that your son just needs to score X% on the test and he does, because his performance has improved recently, then that's great.

Can I ask (as a total newbie to this, with son in state school) what schools are looking for re references? Obviously they place a lot of importance on them, but is it confirmation of academic ability, behaviour, extra curricular interests/ achievements - or all the above? Thanks!

I completely agree with @annahavana , the registrars have so much experience that they can almost predict who they will offer to regardless of the exam result. Once your dc is settled in a secondary school and you get to know the dc in the class you can understand the selection process. (Ie you think I can't believe that person got in and then you discover they have 2 siblings at the school and they play county level tennis).

What I think might be more difficult this year is some of the academic secondaries will take an academic boarder line sportsperson to help their teams success esp in rugby/football/cricket/hockey and this will be more difficult without sports scholarship assessments, I'm guessing they will use sports references and level played at clubs instead.