Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

Our secondary is very similar to yours with incredible extra curricular (not at the moment though sadly) but our primary offering was pretty sparse

Interesting, it has been rather the opposite for us. Incredible extracurricular options at primary, especially with regard to sport and music, but much less on offer at secondary. They do their best, with stuff like DofE and ski trips etc, and the drama productions are excellent, but some of the other stuff that they offer is a bit meh. The primary school was very middle class and probably benefited from a lot of fundraising. The secondary school is more socio-economically diverse.

It doesn't make much difference to dd in any case, as a lot of her time would be taken up with activities out of school either way. It's a shame for those who don't have out of school hobbies, though.

DD isn't particularly sporty but because of where we live, there are exceptional sporting opportunities offered in the local community, so it's very easy for kids to get involved at whatever level suits. We know a few kids who compete at national level and attend international events etc. Again, these clubs tend to attract kids from both private and state schools because of the quality of what they offer.

Not happier because they go to private school, but happier maybe because their family have less money issues. More chance of doing extra curricular activities, more access to sports and clubs, more access to holidays, better food and choices. I don't think private school will make them happier, I think having money makes things much easier, and therefore less stress/worries which is turn makes for a happier environment.

I would suggest looking at a Steiner school where there is more emphasis on overall well-being, as well as facilitating the child’s learning interests. A couple of close friends went to a Steiner school and they are both exceedingly bright, well rounded, and emotionally grounded.

Private school extra curricular at the better schools is like a Charlie Bingham ready meal - nice packaging, easy, means you can focus on your job and not worry about hours spent ‘cooking’. To get the same at most states (caveat - not all I know) you have to source the best ingredients from good specialist shops and cook it yourself. Can taste just as good (better?!)

Great analogy!

@SJaneS49. Our secondary is very similar to yours with incredible extra curricular (not at the moment though sadly) but our primary offering was pretty sparse - it didn’t matter as there was so much outside school but I did feel sad there wasn’t more after school and also very little music and drama in the curriculum either, so it was wonderful to discover that at our secondary the children do dance, drama and music every week within curriculum then more options after school too as well as an eye boggling amount of sport clubs and foreign sports trips. I do think a lot comes down to the area the school is in and parental support of school/ fundraising as our school is achingly middle class. As ever there is such a huge range of offerings within both sectors and I was stereotyping a bit to make a point.

Disciplines not disciples!

The same assertions seem to get recycled on these Private/State time immemorial.

I agree with @AlexaShutUp. Most things can be supplemented outside of school. Nor are provision of Clubs at State schools by any means necessarily poor. A State school with a specialism in Sports is likely to have a good amount of Sports based clubs. DDs specialises in the Perforrming & Visual Arts, there are 6 choirs, singing and a whole variety of musical instruments, script & creative writing, drama clubs and Lamda, an in-house musical studio and cinema, multiple Arts (drawing/textiles/graphics), netball, trampolining, cheerleading and horse riding. For girls wanting extra curricular tennis and hockey yes there would be a gap but DD plays tennis with me and has been to a local tennis club.

The point I’m making in it appears a long winded way is that no, provision in Privates is not undeniably better - DDs school offers more on the Performing and Visual Arts side than the local Private’s (and made Tatlers Top 10 UK State schools a couple of years ago for this reason). I’d agree it’s likely that some (not by any means all) Private’s offer a greater breadth across disciples ..but I wonder how strong Millfields offerings in the Visual and Performing Arts actually are?

If she's year 8 I'd start looking around to see if another school is a better fit for her. Can you drag it out of her why she's unhappy (I'm assuming she is). Very important you think about what's best for your daughter. If you look at the local private schools you might think none of them would be right anyway.

I did giggle at one poster who was furious that they had to pay fees for what the government ‘should’ be providing in state schools. I am happy to stand corrected but I don’t know any country in the world that provides a state education via taxes with the level of extra curricular that U.K. fee paying schools involved in the facilities arms race give to pupils - there has been an explosion in last ten years! I think (again correct / educate me here ) that in most countries your state education gives you the basics and the rest you source via specialist teachers outside of school (in our country often ones with day jobs in the private sector!) I am not for one moment saying that the Government shouldn’t fund education better and I would like smaller class size, but really I think a child’s education can be better if it takes place in a variety of different locations, if the parents have the time to do that. That said the sports club I coach at is overflowing with children from fee paying schools as the coaching is better than at their schools so some families do the Charlie Bingham and the home cooking option!

Private school extra curricular at the better schools is like a Charlie Bingham ready meal - nice packaging, easy, means you can focus on your job and not worry about hours spent ‘cooking’. To get the same at most states (caveat - not all I know) you have to source the best ingredients from good specialist shops and cook it yourself. Can taste just as good (better?!)

Ds2's prep school does sports 4 days a week, after school art DT and sport and French 4 times a week. This is year 3. Where we live we would struggle to provide this in the evenings and weekends.

In our limited experience the big delta between state and private us the extent and quality of extra curricular

I agree that this is often the case. The drama at dd's state comprehensive is actually pretty good, thanks to an absolutely amazing drama teacher. The sport is probably mefiocre at best, and the music is quite limited. The music at dd's primary school was absolutely exceptional, however

The thing is, it's really easy to supplement these things outside of school, and there are advantages to having different friendship groups as well. I would never have wanted dd's entire life to revolve around the school because I don't think it's healthy.

Also, for those kids who want to do sport/music/drama at a higher level, even the private school offering is unlikely to be enough, so the kids from both sectors end up doing the same stuff together outside of school. DD's drama group is full of kids from the local private school because what they offer is way better than anything offered by any of the schools in either sector. Same for the kids who compete nationally in their sports, or the ones who go off and join the national youth orchestra as my sister did when we were younger.

So I think private probably does offer better opportunities to younger kids who aren't that serious about their activities, but nothing that a proactive parent can't easily replicate outside of school. It just means you have to play taxi driver a bit more often!

Ummm I wish it wasn’t true either but anecdotally it is I’m afraid.

Dd sport she does one hour a week at school her private school friends same sport do anentire afternoon plus after school and weekend matches!

MsTSwift "Extra curricular undeniably better at private." Absolutely not true.

I would move her to a non super selective pastorally strong smaller private if that is possible.
I don’t think any school has all ‘happy’ children but it sounds like she would benefit from being near the top academically and in a different ethos in terms of how the young people view their education. Moving preGCSE is a good time.

I was a geeky uncool type who was bullied and miserable in a large middling comp where almost no one else gave a monkeys about learning. My dc are now, due to unforeseen circumstances, in a private school that I would have loved...although friends are always who happens to be there at the time so you can never be sure.

Agree with the two above it's v good to have activities and friends outside of school so that school is not 100 percent of their lives.

A lot of girls have a (Friendship) nightmare in y8, it’s normal but upsetting and worrying

I know girls who moved to little private schools and it was a godsend. I know girls who stayed and grew into nice friendship groups. I know girls who stayed in state and ended up in worse groups... there is no way of knowing

I do know that for my own kids having friends outside of school was the key to stability , through army cadets/sport/acting

It’s much harder when their entire social life is school based at that age

Extra curricular undeniably better at private. We got round this by getting dd into a private excellently run local hockey club. Even as a cool 14 year old she loves it and plays in the week with weekend matches has made lots of new friends and the young women that play who are mostly students at the local university are really good out of school role models.

Our state girls school is 1.5 miles away and the girls all walk with their mates. They have a real laugh and go to cafes on Friday etc. My friends girls at private are picked up in the car everyday at 5pm after all these extra curricular. They have very few local friends and my friend often bemoans they hang around the house. So yes they will end up better at tennis but not sure on balance whether they wouldn’t be happier mucking about with friends.

In our limited experience the big delta between state and private us the extent and quality of extra curricular - sports, music, drama etc is in a new level.
Our state primary DS would have a TA teaching her half the time including art and music. Alot of the parents are unhappy - the TA has no affinity with art or music. Our kids prep school has specialist art and music teachers with art clubs, choirs, orchestras. Sport is the same.. state primary sports teacher comes once a week for an hour plus one hour a week with form teacher of 'dance'. Prep school sports matches start in yr 3 and there is a swimming team and sports training at lunchtimes and after school.
If these things don't matter to you don't pay for private. However I think teenagers especially girls are more likely yo be engaged in sports for longer.

This is purely anecdotal, but I was really shocked at the prevalence of mental health problems amongst my privately educated peers at Cambridge. Perhaps it was coincidence, but my state educated friends did not appear to have nearly so many problems.

This was my experience too at Imperial but also with some foreign students whose parents had spent a lot of money on fees (feeling pressured, anxiety, insecurity).

Haha, yes 15SJaneS49, I feel your pain with regard to the cost of the dance costumes! Dance and musical theatre do indeed take up a lot of time, but they bring her so much joy that I do feel they're worth it. As she is planning to go down a very scientific route for her a-levels, I also feel that they offer a nice balance that she wouldn't otherwise have. If, that is, they will be able to start doing stuff again soon!

In contrast, DH and I gave a great whoop of relief when DD2 threw in the towel on ballet, tap and musical theatre at the local dance school last year. We’ve reclaimed Saturday mornings and one evening as well as the Easter and May school holidays & weekends given over to rehearsals for the bi-annual big razzmatazz of a show involving DD in multiple numbers in multiple outfits costing several £100s. She still has dance, drama, singing and Lamda at her Performing Arts specialising school (the last two paid for) so I don’t feel she’s missing out.

When I get memories on Facebook come up of little DD in her ballet costumes I feel a small pang of sadness but quite honestly seeing how much of the girls time the big summer show Dance Schools take, I’m delighted she’s exited now before the GCSE years.

I feel very fortunate that dd has continued with her beloved dance right through the teenage years, and I feel sure that this has helped a lot - in terms of having interests outside academia, a regular exercise regime and friends outside of school. Her mental health has definitely taken a dip during the periods in this last year when the dance studio has had to close due to covid.

I do understand teenage girls starting to feel self conscious in leotards, though. It's a shame that your dd won't try another type of dance instead, OP. Would she perhaps consider drama? That is dd's other big passion, and she gets a lot from this too, though we would both prioritise dance if we had to choose.

It's so hard at the moment with gyms and activities closed, but I do think regular exercise is really important for mental health and lots of teenagers don't seem to get enough. Thankfully, dd has figured this out for herself now, and will go for runs etc if the dance studio is closed. It definitely impacts on her mood, but I do appreciate how hard it is (maybe impossible?!) to get a teenager to exercise if they aren't interested!

DD hasn't ever been one for massive friendship dramas, but I would definitely say that year 8 is the worst for girls. DD is now year 11 and her friendship groups are very stable now. It takes a while for them to find their niche, I think.

wrt dance, ds gave up his beloved football in year 7 as he 'wasn't good enough'

Then in year 10 he began using the gym and then in year 11 joined an adult 5 a side team. Kids who liek sprot will find their new adult versions at some point.

Hi OP, I’m sorry to hear your DD isn’t happy. For what it’s worth my two DDs at diff schools both found year 8 the hardest and both stopped their dance and sport. Their friends in year 10 and 11 were completely different to their friends in year 7 and 8. It’s luck of the draw whether they find like minded friends and teachers, nice and not so nice kids rock up to every school. My year 10 daughter took up different sports a year or so later and has stuck with that to my relief. If I were you I wouldn’t spend too much time thinking about whether or not to make a change. I would visit elsewhere and apply elsewhere and then see what your choices are....apologies if that’s been said, I haven’t read all the posts