Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

www.tes.com/news/bullying-worse-private-schools-new-research-shows

I think it depends on the child. My DD was at a state through primary, had a god awful time through-out. Labelled as ''difficult'' / ''behavioral issues'', 'trouble maker'', lazy etc.. did well across the board (exceeding in most areas) despite this. Was made fun of and bullied on several occasions, endless friendship issues. She hated school and getting her there was often a challenge. She's a smart but very sensitive kid, asks a lot of questions, challenges things and a bit of a geek really (likes sport, science and maths, thinks art is a waste of time ..).

I moved her to a selective private for secondary - they can't praise her enough. She's done so well, and the change in her in frankly shocking. Her drive, commitment, quality of work, enthusiasm, self-motivation, participation in the many things on offer means she loves what a selective environment offers and it has had a hugely positive impact on her wellbeing. She loves school now. It's financially a huge struggle and she is the ''poor'' kid among mostly upper middle class high earner families, military, and ''super'' rich families - however most of which are incredibly down to earth. DD's not ''materialistic'' in the slightest so any 'money' talk goes over her head and it's not impacted her social integration one bit. I'd do it again in a heart beat for the benefit it's brought.

Moral of the tale, if the school fits the child they are happy. If it doesn't then it's a tough journey but not insurmountable.. if you can afford it then I'd say be very careful about choosing the right school for your child.

I moved to private from state in year 9 and was incredibly lucky. My whole year group seemed very down to earth and I found everyone easy to get on with. Thinking about it, some other new girls joined at the same time but left as they didn’t like it at all and they’d come from private already . So it’s really just pot luck. I sometimes see posts about the school and it seems to have a current reputation of being posh and rich. Not sure if it’s because of SM and mumsnet, reputations can be created and spread more easily .

the whole extra curriculum thing.

Of course it varies from school to school, and some state schools have award winning drama/sport teams, and some have nothing and some private schools offer a broad spectrum and the award winning teams etc and some don't.

I think the thing that stands out is that regardless of state or private, for most things if it is on offer, you probably have to pay for it (when I did horse riding at my private school on pe afternoon, my parents paid for it, despite it being one of the pe options on offer.) only things like football/rugby are likely to be free.

If you are going to pay, then you can pay outside of school too. Ds was part of a local football team (never made it into school football team at his state school) dd1 was part of a local brass band, that was (and still is) amazing and has been life changing for her I think, one of the advantages is that it is mixed age, from 7-97, literally. She was also a keen scout for a while and did a massive overseas trip with them, again life changing, both of those were not only out of school, but could not be done at school in the same way.
But now, covid allowing, she is going to join a joint cadet force run at their state school. That is one we don't have available outside school.

It really comes down to what the schools you look at offer, and what is available locally, and how much it is worth to you that it is afterschool and on site (ie provides childcare)

Again and again it has been said - it depends on the school!

I haven't RTFT, but would say that if your DD is finding a big secondary school too much to cope with, then a reasonable smallish independent school may be a better environment for her. We moved DS too many times for school. He attended four in total but we didn't move house. It has ended up okay, but in retrospect, it wasn't good at the time. However, at 21 and in his first year at uni, he is socially fluid in a way that few people are. He has good mannners and knows how to behave around our very ordinary, very middle class friends, but understands the hunting shooting fishing aristocracy/plutocracy from prep school. Unusually he also knows the reality of how people live in very rough. gritty deprived areas (both urban and rural) from school and work in hospitality and kitchen work, and gets on pretty well with them too. And, the thing I am proud of, he takes everyone as he finds them, and you get the same treatment if you're a Russian oligarch or buying a slice of pizza. Duke or dustman, my son will speak to you as himself. Now if he could learn to be tidy...

Completely agree @ConfusedcomMum. I’m not personally sure about viewing the happiness levels of any poor people from a third world country as a) we’re seeing it from our privileged Western perspectives and there is a tendency to project and b) it has a bit of the ‘simple but happy’ Victorian folksy stereotyping of the rural poor - I just think it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that (apologies @flourandeggs, no offence meant in the least, I just have ??).

I think Confused is spot on re contentment - children need to feel secure, loved and engaged to be happy, along with content at school. Any family of any background can provide that. DHs background is hugely different to mine (single parent household in a rather grim area of S London, Down syndrome elder brother, everything bought ‘on the tick’) but we both had very happy childhoods (or I did until I was shipped off to board at age 10), Obviously parental stress due to not being able to pay bills will impact on a child - but so will better off parents redundancies, bankruptcies and divorce. A single parent relying on a food bank on a semi regular basis might/might not very well providing her children a happier environment than a well off couple going through a really nasty separation. There are just no hard and fasts here, at all.

Again, I appreciate State children come from all income backgrounds (something I like) but you can’t stick parents of either into either a ‘well off’, ‘less well off’ camp. It completely takes out of consideration the children on bursaries or with parents cutting corners to pay fees. If also excludes completely the middle class left wing liberal professionals choosing State out of principle/good local provision - there are rather a lot of us!

It's about the right fit rather than a state v private issue.

Not quite the same but we've moved our primary aged kids from state to a small non selective private.

The difference in them is staggering, especially DC2 who is anxious and tries to hide at the back in classes.

The smaller class sizes has meant that the teachers have a great grasp of my kids and know them really well, in a way that the (very good and hard working) teachers at the state school just couldn't do. They are in classes of 15 rather than 32.

So whilst it is non selective, they are getting a lot out of our kids, not just academically. DC2 now sings around the house and is giving presentations at school without a week of panic induced insomnia.

I would do it again without hesitation.

Look at your options. Speak to anyone you can at the school, specifically re class sizes and pastoral care. Narrow the choice down to a school who has shown genuine interest in your daughter and making sure she is looked after.

Then discuss it with your DD. Go see the school, so a taster day (obviously not until the summer term due to covid).

IMO I think happiness and good mental health is linked to contentment. I'm trying to teach my DCs this at the moment.

@rhowton @Hoppinggreen Someone once told me a lovely thing - once your basics are provided for (love, roof over head, food ) happiness becomes a choice. You can meet very rich people who are unhappy with their lives however much they accumulate, and those who have very little but choose to be happy and see how lucky they are for the small things. Happiness is a daily choice - it is choosing to be happy with what you have, rather than having what you want. I have met plenty of children who have material things and are constantly 'bored', and I've met and worked with street children in Egypt who smile all day because they have friends to hang out with and the promise of the next meal.

Absolutely re happiness/wealth but it’s sliding into an assumption that Private school parents are going to better off income wise than State school which absolutely might not be the case.

@flourandeggs, yes come on over to Travel, tends to be less contentious than Education without doubt! I do think you’d be a bit bored but personally I’d much rather be reading a good book in my garden or sofa than hot & sweaty on a lounger with frequent interruptions from DD2 complaining she’s bored! DH would quite happily have an entire holiday on a lounger I think but personally I get hot and annoyed! I was lucky enough to have parents who lived and travelled widely abroad and it was always drummed into us that we were very fortunate to see the places we did and if you do visit a country, actually get out of the hotel and do it the courtesy of seeing it properly. It’s kind of stuck with me!

I agree, being rich doesn’t make you happier in itself but it’s easier to be happy if you aren’t always worried about money.
If you have engaged loving parents who can also provide material things I imagine you might be happier than someone with engaged loving parents who can’t.

@RedskyAtnight I absolutely don't think you need money to be happy. But having more money certainly eliminates some stresses that you would face with having no money. If you have less stresses and worries, you will naturally be happier.

@SJaneS49. Oooh I don’t know I could do at least a week with a book (or ten) at the moment... then followed by the more interesting bit. We do have the most unusual, educational and random trips usually though so I might feel a bit bored after a few days? Will have to look you up on travel and we can dream about this year and beyond! X

MsTSwift ... just not true, depends where you get your anecdotes. You really can't generalise on the better extra curricular any more than you can on happier. But from my selective state secondary experience, it could not have been bettered.

@flourandeggs, I do love the idea of mocking up your life as if it was a school. Agree, nothing but mud, mud, mud ahead which DDog throws herself into literally enthusiastically, us not so much!

As for the Bahama’s, I used it as an example of what might be seen as a luxury holiday as v camping but to be honest, that kind of holiday bores me absolutely rigid! Much rather be travelling around an interesting country by train/car with multiple stops and maybe ending up at a beach somewhere for a couple of days to give DD2 her lazying by a pool time!

@SJaneS49. oh for the bahamas now! Sandy pink beaches or looking out at a grey muddy field like I am right now...hmmmm... tough choice. Won't be long now will it and we can travel again?! I made a mock up 'prospectus' of our life as if it was a school recently and realised I would be biting off someone's hand to send our children to our 'school'. I know that they would get lots of lovely things from fee paying school too but I don't think any of my family would swop it for our travel adventures and lovely educational trips and the intensely heated debating club that we have around our table each night!

@SJaneS49 Not at all - I love buying them too! Was quite tempted by the Cooks Christmas lunch but DH quite likes doing the big day cook (funnily enough he's less keen on the mid week 'what the f**k shall I cook for tea this time' type cooking.) However I do like cooking so I know that I can make a lasagne to rival theirs at a fraction of the price if I have the time hence the analogy.
@angrysquirrel73 crikey it sounds like you have the Fortnum of Mason's Ready Meal equivalent - great you have children that love taking part in all of those activities. Shame for those who pay the same fee and don't have children who do them all though, they might be counting their pennies and wondering why your children are getting so much more out of it all than them? We have been so blessed with our secondary as the offering is very similar (and free! I don't know how they fund all those free clubs but guessing it must be PTA helped?) Primary was very sparse though, but luckily we live between two cracking cities and have lots in the local town too and its lucky the younger children don't mind time in the car listening to audibles, and I figure they would be doing that time in a school bus if we did fee paying so I figure either way they are travelling. I do sometimes dream of London, but even then I am guessing there is lots of travel between clubs.

Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Why consider an academic selective secondary then?

Look at a private school that isn’t academically selective.

1. Many families spend all their money on private education. There is no room for these extras
2. You seem to think more money = happier. I think that's a whole different discussion.

I don’t know if mine are ‘happier’ at private school. They are however getting a great education especially during these torrid times.

I personally think it is a positive to do extra curricular out of school (though concede it is more difficult/time consuming). Making friends that they don't go to school with has been one of the big positives. I also think non-school extra-curricular provides both more of a breadth of opportunity (local Music service provides music groups for children of any musical ability from beginner upwards; to get into private school orchestras etc they normally require a certain standard - and in the case of my DN's private school you also have to play the "right" instrument"). The teaching may be better at specialist clubs (e.g. DS did martial arts to a high level - he was taught by one of the top practitioners in the UK from beginner level) and there is greater breadth of activities available (one of DS's friends started ice skating as a beginner at age 11; now competes nationally). Private school extra curricular can only cover so much.

Our state primary had 1 sports club a week (football) and that was it. 2 hours of PE lessons (one with sports teacher one with class teacher). No choir, very few learnt instruments, no lamda, no sports teams.
DS1 moved in year 3 to prep school. 4 hours of PE per week, x-country running club, swimming team, hockey team, netball team, cricket team, football team, rugby team, gymnastics club, LAMDA (extra charge), a play each term, ukulele club, choirs, orchestra, lots of children doing instrument and singing lessons. Where we live we couldn't even replicate what the prep school offers, even if we tried. You might be able to rustle up one or two of the activities but not all of them.
The state secondary near us has a few teams and a choir but that's about it. I know our friend's state schools in London provide more extra curricular but where we are its very limited.

@flourandeggs, wrong to be a bit over familiar with both Charlie Bingham & Cook’s offerings as both lack any cooking ability whatsoever and any culinary imagination or indeed, interest?! 🙂

“Not happier because they go to private school, but happier maybe because their family have less money issues. More chance of doing extra curricular activities, more access to sports and clubs, more access to holidays, better food and choices.”

@rhowton, erm, no!

Parents struggling to pay Private fees might have significantly more monetary issues! Arguably, we as a family with a child in a State have more far flung holidays (I won’t use the word better as quite frankly define better? For some, a camping holiday might be infinitely more enjoyable than an AI break in the Bahamas) than some struggling to pay Private fees. As for better food - define again better? Good nutrition doesn’t need to cost the earth.

Quite honestly what you are talking about is parental income, not the benefits of Private school.