Missed out on entry to grammar & independent secondaries in London

@OverTheRainbow88 Okay. Point taken. I really don't think that I'm wrong for not thinking that my DC is more deserving or better than any other child but just focusing on finding the school that plays to DC's strength. DC is a fantastic person, don't get me wrong, but exceptional I leave for the likes of Einstein.

@Waitingforsunshine

I genuinely didn’t mean to be judgmental. I’ve literally just never heard of such things.

@cantstopstressing This is a problem almost unique to London. Sure, there’s pressure and stress elsewhere in the country, but it is the parents that create this huge beast. Children in London aren’t cleverer than the rest of the country, they are just more often than that put through huge amounts of tutoring which pushes up pass marks. Don’t even get me started on how I feel about those children subjected to the 4+, 7+ and then the 11+ or 13+.

@nospampls has summed it up nicely by saying how they personally classify schools as “top” and “decent”. What makes one school top and the other only decent? It usually comes down simply to academic results. For a super sporty boy I would think twice about having to schlep to Grove Park to play football on a grass pitch at CLSB. Even these “top” schools have weaknesses when you look at the specific needs of your own child. The only way you can rank schools is how they work for your child.

There is a lot of snobbery when it comes to schools in London too. There was a very interesting post on here not so long ago from a parent whose son had got a place at one of these “top” indies and then had second thoughts. They had got so caught up in the frenzy created by other parents obsession with top schools that it was only later they realised their local comp was actually a much better place for him and their finances.

Don’t get me wrong. Everyone wants the best for their children. I understand you’re frustrated at the system - I was too but moved before I needed to be part of it. But there are some great schools out there, both state and private, which will turn out to be the right place for your son. Just be prepared for people turning their noses up at your choice.

Is you local state school really such a bad option? Will his friends from primary be going there? Are their parents happy with that as a choice. Do kids do well there? I am guessing they do. My kids did well at the local comp and it's not one seen as especially desirable - it's very mixed and inner London. They did as well as kids we know at Latymer. Lots of bright kids there alongside them, several got a bundle of 9's and 8's. There's a lot to be said for having local friends and not having to travel!

@cantstopstressing Well, I never said/wrote that so I have no idea what you're on about.

But I have to admit that I am a bit tired of the North London mamas thinking that their DCs are outstanding and more entitled to everything (ie entitled to everything they want) than anyone else. And to suggest that others might be more deserving of something (not necessarily about schools) wouldn't even cross their minds. Oh, and it is a ratrace only if you allow it to be so - follow your best, not others' best.

I come from a country where there only are a few independent schools and DCs who go there do either have parents working abroad but they want their DCs to stay within the educational system or DCs who really can't fit in in any other school. Normally, DCs just go to their local primary and then their local comp (that has the subjects you want to study). Students choose what they want to study, they're not being told by anyone else, and if they don't cope they'll change. There are certain subjects deemded more "prestigious" than others but everyone can have a go at them if they want to. But as it is, no one wants to study something that is too difficult for them (and would lead to low grades), so the "selection" happens automatically.

Anyway, next time, maybe clarify that you want yay-sayers only to reply.

And Aldenham is a lovely school - my friends' DCs are certainly thriving there.

I really think that you're looking at this wrongly. You've sat your child for some of the top schools in the country, that is a tough call for any child. There's no failure in him not going to these schools and to feel disappointed shows a lack of understanding of the reality, it is to all intents and purposes a numbers game. Aldenham is an incredible school, yes it's mixed ability but it's a very special place and gets the best out of the cohort, a real breath of fresh air in the madness of the North London system.

@OverTheRainbow88 Wow, how can anyone draw such a judgemental conclusion from this thread? I hope that doesn't apply to the teaching too.

To me/us, the whole aim was to find a school suitable for DC and without putting any pressure on DC. There was never any pressure on going to the tutor or sitting the exams - but with the tutors DC felt challenged for once and actually quite "enjoyed" it. We also said that 3 schools were the max DC could sit exams for and only if we deemed them "right" and DC liked them.

Of course, I view my DC as exceptional, or unique rather, as an individual. But academically, DC is within the norm, even if academically clever. I value my DC way beyond the academic capabilities but of course still want a school suitable for DC.

Anyway, DC sat 3 exams and got 3 offers. Hence, I think we pitched the right schools to apply for based on what would suit DC, not based on others' view on the schools.

Not everyone will get an offer from all schools they apply to, but nonetheless, if you/DC don't get any offer despite sitting several exams, then maybe, just maybe, the chosen schools have not been right. It can't be bad luck all the time.

These discussions can turn quite unpleasant and it is not unusual to see parents calling children/parents of children who got in all sorts, just like in this thread - they're nerds, they don't deserve it, they're just lucky, they've been pushed by their parents etc. Frankly, I find that attitude disgusting.

As a foreigner, I think this whole system is madness but it is what it is. It takes time to navigate through the system and find the school that suits your child (rather than making the child suit the school).

@cantstopstressing, I have no doubt that you'll find the right school for your DS even if it might not be what you'd envisaged at first. But it will be right. I wish you all the best and hope that you don't stress to much about it.

Wow this thread is an eye opener, as a secondary school teacher myself I didn’t even realise this was a thing!

Calling your own kids not exceptional is quite sad in my humble opinion. All kids are exceptional in their own way. Some at being kind, some at a specific sport, some at art, drama, singing, helping others.

Highgate & CLSB are what I consider some of the top indies. Aldenham is in the "decent" category. DAO & Latymer are two of the most difficult state schools to get into.

It may sound harsh but getting 75-80% in online mocks isn't the required standard for your choice of schools. The DC's getting thru those schools will be achieving 90% + in mocks. It's likely that most DC will then achieve 5-15% lower in the actual exams for a variety of reasons.

Don't let the 11+ define your child. Its definitely not a failure. Try not to dwell on the past and focus on future.

At just above the pass mark determined by standardisation, a lot of DC will be clustered with the same or very similar marks, so the difference between just getting above that and just missing out can be tiny.

I have a spreadsheet of standardised marks for a super-selective Grammar. The pass mark was 218.5: there were 22 boys with marks between 218 and 218.5; and 22 boys between 218.5 and 219. The cut-off has to be somewhere.

These DC are likely to all be scoring around 80% in mocks and I think it is likely that your DS fell into that group of results. So your DS may well be just as able as many of the DC who passed, and that is where the luck part comes into it. Of course there are also DC who score well clear above the pass mark too.

I'm sorry it hasn't worked out for your son the way you'd hoped so far, but I genuinely don't believe more tuition than you did is the answer. I hope you and he end up with a school you're happy with.

There is a tendency for beating yourself up if you "don't do the right thing" and send your child to "the best school" possible. I work in school admissions and I get this a lot from parents, particularly parents who have set their heart on private education and set their heart on going to a particular school (or type of schools). Usually and unfortunately, they therefore either don't bother applying for a state school, or give it little or no thought, meaning they end up with perhaps a school they wouldn't've chosen, had they thought about it.

Firstly, of the state selective schools, have you asked to go on the waiting list? I don't know how far down they were the list.

Secondly, what arrangements have you made for next year ? Closing date was 31/10/2020 for September 2021 entry.

Please don't let your son know that you're despairing. It's so much pressure to put on a child of his age. If he is bright and as well rounded as you say, he will do well anywhere.

Really academically high pressured schools can be difficult for those who might struggle to keep up too - the child who got into Latymer might struggle (emotionally) with not being top of everything.

It's not about luck, it's about intelligence and exam technique. And it's not really about one exam, is it ... each school has about three, if I recall.
But don't lose hope ... the indies are easier to get into than the top state in North London so January may well bring you good news (and a whole new set of issues.) Very best wishes for it all, wherever he ends up.

Latymer! Auto correct!

I understood that for Latimer, the kids are scoring above 99% - hence the age weighting to create a way to differentiate. I also understood Latimer had 2000 applicants for 120 places. It is the super super super bright kids.

I think I will follow WaitingforSunshine here and be brutally honest too. There are endless "really bright" children on Mumsnet. If they are really bright they will be fine, they will get in to "top" schools without much tutoring or fuss. If they don't get in, maybe they had a bad day (or lots of bad days if they applied to lots of schools) or maybe they are not really bright and it's time to accept that and work with their needs rather than parental ambitions. And they can go somewhere else and still be fine. I speak from experience.

@cantstopstressing Please don’t judge schools like Aldenham based purely on results. As you have experienced, the very brightest will be heading to the schools your son sat for and wasn’t successful. These schools get the results they do because they are ridiculously selective.

Aldenham takes a much wider academic ability. Now consider their results again. If they are taking those students who are average and turning Bs and Cs into As and Bs then arguably it’s a better school than one that just gets top grades for those who were going to get top grades anyway? Aldenham and other schools like it consistently have children getting a full house of 8s and 9s. Clever children also do extremely well at these sorts of schools. Forget the league tables. Look at to whether the school can meet the needs of your son. Do they set, is there a gifted and talented programme, is there help available for SEN, do they play his favourite sport (and are there several teams if he’s not A team material?). If he’s into drama then how many productions each year and are they open to all of a select few? Can he have music lessons on his chosen instrument?

We moved out of London because I just couldn’t be doing with the ridiculous nature of the whole admissions process. The same children sitting for the same 5-7 schools, ridiculous levels of tutoring (you did more than enough!!!!), and the frenzy the parents get themselves into.

We are within half an hour of London. Grammar school pass, offer from one very selective independent, academic scholarship at another, and a standard offer from a school often considered a “backup” to the selective North London schools. We went with the backup school as she described it as feeling like home. She’s absolutely flying and having the time of her life. The school are on it from day one with the academics and it’s about reaching their individual potential not being another top grade in the exam league tables.

Please keep an open mind. Schools like Aldenham don’t let clever children sink and languish in a pot of average.