State or private

‘ The absolute overriding thing for us is that the children are HAPPY and that's worth everything to us. If you can afford it, they how can you even question giving your children that happiness.‘

I appreciate your DH had a rough time @Insertfunnyname and obviously you feel you’ve made the right choices for your own DC and it is working for you. But it does rather predispose that Privste’s are the route to Happiness which really does depend both on the child and the private school in question. My DH also went to a rough Comp (in South London) & also did well academically- in contrast he has very happy memories of his school, he was Head Boy and is still in touch with a number of his old friends. So again, it’s purely about the child and the school in question. Admittedly we live in a well off area with very few PP pupils at DDs State school but she is happy and there isn’t much of a delinquent element a all and the equipment & availability is very good (they even have an in-house cinema).

Absolutely agree with Insertfunnyname.

I got great academic results at a shitty comprehensive. I was miserable there. Loads of bullying; loads of kids who were bored, didn't see the point of school, and just caused trouble all the time.

Obviously that's just my personal experience. My point is that, according to some criteria, this was a success story. My grades and university destination couldn't have been any better if I'd gone to a private school. My childhood, confidence, and happiness, however, were all adversely impacted by the school I went to. It's the journey that matters, not the destination.

I have a DD, and moved her from state to (single sex) private school. It was a "naice" state school and she wasn't unhappy there. But she has absolutely blossomed in the new school and is much more happy and confident. And she LOVES that there are no badly behaved boys taking up all the teacher's time and attention.

OP - Private if you can comfortably afford. Otherwise state, grammar if you live close to one. Otherwise, choose from the local comps. Sending our kids to state grammar enabled us to save and to move home 2 years into grammar school.

@bs9er, “ I'm all for contextual offers for the truely disadvantaged but I'm not sure Emily, whose dad is a GP and mums a part time solicitor is actually deserving of it.“

I’m pretty sure I’m not going to be the only one who disagrees with this! Just taking the usual arguments on here for Private - small classes, experienced & well qualified teachers (attracted by the better pay) and often selective entrance, it’s not a level playing field. Yes of course some State schools outperform Private’s but Emily at the local Comp which achieves average results in a mixed ability class of 30 being taught by a mixture of experienced and newly qualified teachers should in my opinion receive the same Contextual offer whether her parents are GPS or long term unemployed. Would you suggest parents are means tested?!

@bs9er. Contextual offers are step 1 in the Conservative Government's commitment to slowly make private schooling a thing of the past. Or as Bojo termed it - 'An eccentric choice'. However what many private school parents don't realise is that they are offered based on where your children take their GCSE's not their A Levels. So these parents are gaming the system without truly understanding the rules by removing their children for sixth form. Whichever route taken (Private or State plus tutoring) it is still middle class children who are benefiting, I really, really hope that in my life time we see a system where all children benefit from education equally, but I fear I may be an idealist. Still, we need the odd idealist don't we?

I just think I'd have been so much happier at school without violent disruptive boys in my class and four to an ancient keyboard, and if this is within my grasp to give to my kids, should I try?

Yes. Always yes. I have such fond memories from my non-academic private school. I loved every second. I may have got the same results at the local state school but I wouldn't have loved it as much. My husband went to the local state school, it was in a very deprived area. He got good grade as his parents valued education and he's bright.
But he was MISERABLE. Hated it, hated that there was no equipment for sports, hated the violent, disruptive children...

Our children are at the "cheap" local private. It's not an Eton feeder but it has big emphasis on all the extras, the experience and the attitude of success. It isn't academically pushy but it gets good marks.

The absolute overriding thing for us is that the children are HAPPY and that's worth everything to us. If you can afford it, they how can you even question giving your children that happiness. Life isn't about the destination or purely the grades. It's about the journey.

We've gone private. I'm pleased with it but actually don't have anything to compare it with. It is a lot of money. My biggest concern right now is that the state school that many of my children's peers attend (affluent families having 2 holidays a year, skiing etc, often only one parent working and parents paying for tutoring) is benefiting from contextual offers at university level (and frankly more oxbridge offers) whereas the independent school children have to get the highest grades. Not all families that go private are rich. Often both parents are working and a lot of fun stuff is sacrificed. This year, at my children's school, some of the sixth form went back into the state sector. I'm all for contextual offers for the truely disadvantaged but I'm not sure Emily, whose dad is a GP and mums a part time solicitor is actually deserving of it.

As an aside second hand uniform is thriving at our school.

@Mnetter78432. I like to use a cooking analogy when I think about middle class families and education. Private is a prettily packaged Charlie Bingham meal that you can pop in the oven and enjoy. It doesn’t in any way make it more superior to a home cooked meal based on ingredients sourced from a wide range of shops (the best organic meat, Aldi basics, Riverford veg box!) cooked with love and attention. However it is easier, especially if you are working to go the Charlie Bingham route. It sounds like you are very much qualified for the ‘home cooking’ however as you are interested, informed, thoughtful, engaged. I suspect you don’t need the Charlie Bingham crutch, as long as you have time to source and cook the best ‘ingredients’. As for the polish thing I am afraid that is a crock of poop cooked up my private school marketing depts and perpetuated on Mumsnet by parents trying to justify their slightly risky financial investment - I know (across generation and very much including kids at school now) children in the private sector with crippling shyness, social anxiety & mental health problems who don’t appear at all ‘polished’. Kids at private school are as varied and human as at any other school, some flourish in the system some are crushed by it most come out pretty average. If you fancy an uplifting read get yourself Kate Clanchy’s ‘Some Kids I Taught and What They Taught Me’, I loved it.

DS's state school does the skiing trips, Geography trips to Iceland, Y8 trips to France and Germany, Battlefield trip for History, trip to South Africa, trip for A level History to Washington/NY, trips to Rome for Latin, trips to Spain for Spanish, DoE Bronze and Silver - and this, until two terms ago, was a Requires Improvement school. The school also has rugby and rowing as options. There are some rough kids. It has a very high proportion of kids on FSM and for whom English isn't their first language, but one of the most successful girls in my ds's year was a Somalian refugee who came over at 10, not speaking much English and who has just gone to Cambridge to study Engineering, with 4 A*s. When she lost her place during the whole A level fiasco she spoke to our MP and wrote to Boris Johnson and when CAGS came in she got her place.

There are lots and lots of middle class kids at state schools - you need to remember that MN is a weird, unreal state. Less than 8% of kids are privately educated up to Y11, though the proportion on MN is sky high. With intelligent and, most importantly, engaged parents a child can do anything and everything.

Don't get too hung up on after school activities either. What they are prepared to do in primary does not match what they are prepared to do in secondary and weight of work in any school starts to take out after school stuff. My ds played rugby out of school all the way through til Lockdown put a stop to it in March but he didn't have time for anything else.

Private might well be right for you - but please don't think that it's the only thing that will give your children future options.

Posted before finishing! Good luck with whatever you do decide - it seems you’re leaning towards the State and giving your DC a breadth of experience outside of school. My DD2 does LAMDA & singing lessons (at her State), we do (or did!) monthly West End trips, Scouts & we do as a family travel a lot both long and shorthaul. I’m really happy that she isn’t missing anything I had out (except Latin and Lacrosse and excessive religion but this isn’t much of a negative!).

Around here..it’s the grammars that have the biggest drug problems. I think there are ‘certain‘ independent schools that have more of a drugs issues, but you can usually gleam a lot from the vibe of a school and the general cohort. Having said that, nowhere is immune!
As for basing decisions for your own children, on the experiences we as parents have had at school, I don’t agree with that. Every child is an individual, and what might have suited you, might be quite the opposite for your child, or their siblings. I attended a large inner city comp, and had a shallow, almost invisible experience. Certainly didn’t emerge in any way confident. I learned that from life itself, and our children will too. But in the meantime, I want my children to be where they feel happiest. And the rest is elementary.

I have to agree with the two previous posters. If you are well spoken, it’s likely your children will be too. I also think it’s a bit of a mixed ‘asset’ in today’s world, it really doesn’t always do you favours. On Mumsnet it seems to be an absolute truth that Private schools breed these super confident, purposeful elite which I do think personally is a load of rubbish! Like any type of school, of course there will be confident types but there will also be plenty of clueless, less confident individuals. Just think back to Freshers term at University, how many gauche, less confident with the opposite sex, pretty uncool Private school kids can you think of? Damn sure I was one of them!

@Mnetter78432. First time I sniffed glue/ inhaled deodorant/ smoked a ciggie/almost had my stomach pumped and tried an extensive range of extra curricular narcotics was at my very famous indie. Indie kids always have the best drugs so don’t place too much weight on protecting them from glue sniffing at a fee paying school. Knives we didn’t have I don’t think but one of the very rich polo playing princes was reputed to have a gun! And don’t get me started on the bullying it took years of counselling to unwind the issues I faced as a result of my exclusive schooling. My kiddos might not be members of the same social club I was but they do seem much happier at their lovely comp than me and my siblings were (and than their cousins are at their fee paying schools) you can’t buy happiness.

We had the same dilemma, and decided to throw caution to the wind, rather than listen to the 'don't do it if you can't afford it' anecdotes on what we could otherwise do the money. Keep our little bit of equity in our home and pass it on when we pop our clogs was perhaps the only alternative, so we remortgaged and never looked back :)
On a more serious note, for us there has been no comparison. We had a choice of grammars to choose from, and while our daughter would have probably academically thrived, as she had very high scores without the ridiculous preparation her classmates were being subjected to....I very much doubt she would have thrived in much else. If anything, the ethos of her school is very much about embracing and participating in every aspect of the school's curriculum..and not just the academics. While the parents we know who chose grammar, seem to spend their time helping their kids with homework (why??), sharing tutor tips and ferrying kids around after school clubs, as the grammars offer very little by way of sports or extra-curricular. It becomes quite a different lifestyle choice at the end of it, and I'm glad we made the choice we did. Good luck.

We did private primary, and have now moved 15 miles into Grammar land for secondary. We have 2 children and we never regretted the money we spent on their education, but I couldn't have done it for another 10 years. We plan to go on a really nice family holiday this summer, now that we're down to paying for just one at school. We've been paying for school and nursery, nursery for one or a double school bill for almost 10 years now. It's a relief to be coming to the end.

I agree on the ‘boy mad’ being a stereotype - in my own case, ‘boy completely inept’ would have been truer! Also it’s 2020, DC are a more open generation & I’m sure we can all acknowledge that going to a single sex school really doesn’t mean all DC will emerge at 18 with no relationship trauma’s or be ‘boy mad’. My eldest DD1s longest relationship to date was with a girl she met in six form.

We had a similar choice to Zodlebud but DD was 100% wanting to go to the private school and swerve “friends” who were all going to the local grammar.

School trips are only part of the equation. At the grammar DDs didn’t go because on quite a few trips because they were balloted out. It was big so getting into sports teams, music and drama productions was also problematic. We know loads of DDs there who didn’t get much of a broader education at all because they couldn’t access it. Yes, good results but not the same as the private school.

We looked at the broader educational offering. DD boarded but she did 12 extra activities at one point! She was always that sort of child and was able to follow her interests. No one said that she couldn’t have a go or join in.

The other element was gaining (Even more) confidence. We did find quite a few DDs were not sure what to do at university and later for a job, but the ones who wanted it most, got what they wanted.

No they were not all boy mad! That’s a rather lazy stereotype. In fact quite girls could develop at their own pace without judgement. That’s a bonus!

All I can say, OP, is that mine have been at independent schools from Reception onwards (youngest is now in Lower 6), and it has been worth every single penny.

"Stretch" is the understatement of the century, though. Never mind basic holidays - I haven't been anywhere at all for about 12 years. Currently sitting with three jumpers on so as not to put the heating on. Etc, etc.

Other people would say that was insane. However, it has worked for me. We have done both single sex and co-ed. I am strongly in favour of single sex, especially for boys (who are given to act like dicks if they're in classes with girls).

Are there any other state schools locally with a broader set of outside of curriculum offer, could you move into catchment for these instead of committing to possibly 7 year of fees times 2. It's a huge commitment.

Both DH and I went to boarding school and assumed we would send ours when the time came (and then we went and had 4, so that went out of the window!). My parents also said don't do it if you don't HAVE to - especially if it is not financially comfortable - and you can say that, even factoring in large fee increases every year.

We are in a grammar county and all four of mine are at superselective grammars - the boys play rugby, study greek and latin, there are sports trips to Dubai, Argentina, South Africa, and geography trips to far flung places, history trips to Russia etc - nothing different to the trips that my friends are getting in their very expensive private schools and paying £35k a year per child for.....!

Single sex v mixed can be an issue - DD is at a single sex grammar and as she has several brothers, I do wish that we had looked at the outstanding mixed state comp here because she has had rather a torrid time in an all girls environment, and sadly, the girls' school has not offered nearly as much extra curricular stuff as the boys'.

Is it worth doing state to start with and see how it goes, and then perhaps moving into private for 6th form - several of DDs friends are doing that - as did some of my eldests DS's friends after GCSEs.....equally we had several boys move into 6th form from private school - perhaps hoping to game the contextual offers .