State or private

I sent mine privately and I wish I hadn't

Maddy68 what do your dcs think? Do they wish they hadn’t gone to private school?

I was really shocked a couple of years ago to be on a bus where boys from one of the top London day schools were watching porn on their phones and saying disgusting things about women. Don't think it doesn't happen just because they have a more expensive schooling.

If you have lots of facilities already which are better than your private schools then its a bit of a no brainer?

With private education you get what you pay for to be honest.

@flourandeggs I’m sorry to hear about your experience at this school. Elitism is never a good thing, and I’m sure there must have been many schools that bred this kind of behaviour. I think it’s safe to say that pastoral provision was generally non existent in some schools back then..well in my day certainly I would hope that most schools nowadays, place it in much higher regard. The issues I experienced at school, were certainly not as severe as you describe, but I certainly wasn’t particularly happy..or enlightened either. I guess that’s why I feel so strongly about this for my own children. Choosing schools was an expedition of some great thought & financial angst, and turning down the grammar that seemed so highly regarded, gave us sleepless nights for sure. But in our heart it hearts we just couldn’t see her there. Every visit reinforced our decision..it just seemed tired and uninspiring, and far too focused on grades. We wanted more..she wanted more. For the right child, it is a great school. Just as it is with the school we eventually chose. In our heart we know it’s right for her, and that’s all any of us can do. I’m glad your children are happy and doing well, it’s wonderful when you feel you’ve made the right choice.

@Schoolmummmy weirdly, as toddler's can testify, the best part of a gift can be the box it is in, not the gift itself. The best thing about my jaw droppingly expensive education was actually the bullying, the anorexia and the utter worthlessness that I felt as part of a very elite school that had social rules that I couldn't comprehend and measured success based on 'who' you were born not 'what' you were - for those awful experiences led me to counselling as a very young person and helped me become, both emotionally and professionally, the person I am. It sounds like you had the same sort of experience at the other end of the education spectrum, and similarly it led you to become who you are. But a true education can never be bought or given as a 'gift' like you say - you can buy lessons and teachers and experiences, but education goes so far beyond a school or a time in life or even a teacher and at its best it is still a fluid process until the day you die - it is often more to do with how you approach life, the depths that you might plummet to and how you rise from them, and you can't ever actually buy that. And children experience the same experiences in ALL secondary schools (bullying, mental health, self harm, anxiety, depression, drug use, weight issues) and it is what they do with that which creates who they become. Please read Kate Clanchey's Book which I keep raving about, for you more than many people it might ring bells, as it is a testament to the fact that it doesn't matter who you are or where you go to school, it is the salt of your soul that marks you out as special.

Sadly, however, you can often pick out the private school kids when the casual racism, homophobia and sexism starts. That's some polish

What a horrible thing to say, and ignorant too.

In our case our independent choice had broadly similar results to the grammar, but with a much less narrow focus on academics

If it's not selective, then it's doing well to have grammar school results.

I go into a lot of schools due to projects that my employers do.

I think behaviour management is much better than when we were at school. It's not perfect, but comprehensives are not the no-go areas some were a generation ago.

Having said that, mine went to a comprehensive (Outstanding) where, yes, there was the occasional bringing of a knife into school. The kids who were not involved were quite simply, not involved, and the school produces great results across the ability groups. Sends a lot to Oxbridge, The Kings Maths School, BRIT and top RG UNis.

The top sets are properly diverse and reflect the local community in terms of socio-economic position and ethnicity. (S London)

The inequality comes because the middle class kids get polish, confidence and poise from their parents.

There is a fair bit of mixing with kids that go to the local private schools, because they know each other from primary, or being local, or scouts or whatever - and I have to say that from what I have seen behaviour wise out of school, the privately educated are not better behaved. Especially wrt drug use and drink.

As PP have said, You have to compare your particular schools.

Local friends within walking distance has worked well for my kids.

@MrsMiaWallis - some grammar schools around us have ‘average A levels’, as do some of the independents. That’s principally down to ability of the underlying cohort, and how well that cohort is selected. Teaching can only achieve so much. In our case our independent choice had broadly similar results to the grammar, but with a much less narrow focus on academics, and a huge array of extra curricular..as well as that jolly nice swimming pool...it’s hard to compare. So if your child is happier in that all-inclusive environment, and doesn’t want to be dragged around after school clubs, with kids she doesn’t really know..and doesn’t feel like a failure for not having completed their obligatory 10 hours of homework a week..then it’s hard to ignore. As with everything in life, it’s very much horses for courses.

@Mnetter78432. One more thought before my gang get home... someone very wise once said to me ‘the grass is greener where you water it’. If you choose the state option, buy the library a book each month, volunteer, fundraise for sports equipment - put your intelligence and thoughtfulness into helping the wider school community, make that grass green and beautiful. Your children will thrive there I am sure. I would pay for my childrens’ comp if I had to that is how pleased I am with who they are becoming, what they are experiencing and what it is setting them up for in life.

@flourandeggs - my reference to the ‘best gift any parent could give’..was with reference to the concept of education..regardless of how we choose to educate our children, or whether we choose state school or private. It certainly wasn’t intended to guilt trip anyone. By the same measure, suggesting it would be foolish to consider spending your children’s future pot of rainy day cash, could be construed to be a similar ‘guilt inducing trip’ for anyone also considering this. It works both ways..whatever we choose, we all make that choice with the very best intentions at heart for our children.

Unless you have so much money you can confidently afford it that us, in which case jolly with a pool and average A levels might suit you.

Having done a whole mix of schools, I can confidently say private schools are only worth the money if you go to a very good one with high academic standards. If they are just jolly with a pool it is absolutely not worth it IMO - a good state will have good teachers and will do a good job. If you have nice middle class children they will find the other nice middle class children and it will be fine.

@Schoolmummmy
"Our greatest success will be happy, well rounded, broadly educated children...and we chose our schools solely on that basis."

We both had the same aim then, we just chose schools from different sectors. I have happy, joyful, well rounded, bright well educated state school kids (don't get me wrong they are human, so have all the appropriate faults and issues that go with that status, but generally they are happy souls.)
Call me dull, I also like knowing there is some leverage in the bank account for the next 70 years of their life.
Aren't we middle classes lucky to have the choice? And perhaps don't guilt out the OP that a private education is the best 'gift' that you can give a child. Humility, charity, empathy, forgiveness, community spirit, work ethic, consideration, communication skills, awareness, understanding, eye opening travel can all be 'gifted' to children from places besides a British fee paying school, otherwise how on earth would the world keep on turning?

@flourandeggs - that’s a sensible way to look at it, and if I had read a post like this, while deliberating over our own choice at the time, it would have made me feel quite bad that we were considering spending our equity on school fees, and not saving it for our children’s future rainy days. And that’s where I see things differently. I had a tough upbringing, inherited zilch and started my own life from scratch. As a family we suffered loss on many levels...and as such, truly understand the concept of living for today. Not living for a day in future time that might never come. My husband grew up in a far more privileged background, and he too has started his own life from scratch. So we both decided that our children’s happiness and experience of life ‘today’..was far more important. Our eldest is now an adult, earning good money and very independent. Well rounded, happy and had a fantastic education. What’s not to like about that? Is she worried about the fact that we might not be able to fund her future in some substantial way? No..she’s too busy working towards that herself, and knows that we have given her the best gift any parent could give. For us, it would have felt selfish not to do otherwise. I guess we all feel very differently on this. But that 7 years at secondary, is quite a long and formative time....

@bs9er - completely agree regarding the contextual offer chasers. Some parents at our last prep, wouldn’t even consider private for this reason. One parent even announced..supposedly tongue in cheek...that as they ticked the ethnic box too..Oxbridge was half in the bag! Just needed to work on the kids coming up to scratch. Which they did with blatant fervour!! Why people would be thinking like this at primary school..is beyond me!
Our child is very bright, and my in-laws think we are mad. Their state educated children are both now Oxbridge, and chose a school specifically primed for contextual advantage. They didn’t want to take any chances..and although they were undoubtedly bright children, they have literally spent their entire childhood focussed on academics, and very little else. It’s like the be all and all for some, and success has many different measures. Our greatest success will be happy, well rounded, broadly educated children...and we chose our schools solely on that basis.

@Mnetter78432. You sound like such a lovely, thoughtful, fab Mum I hate the thought you are questioning yourself. Do have a read of Kate Clanchey’s book it is so wonderful and I shed many tears so that the pages are a bit crumpled and too embarrassing to lend out! I often think to myself that education posts very rarely make the top read threads on Mumsnet, and for a very good reason - education is really such a small part of real life, and yet in this country we middle class folk have been groomed to obsess over ‘education’ more than ‘childhood’ or ‘wellbeing’ - probably why we rank so low internationally in the ‘happy children’ research!

Very nicely put @flourandeggs!

@Mnetter78432 flash holidays? .. you don’t seem the type from what I read. Trips to Rome, the pyramids, The Atacama desert - if you read those in a school prospectus what would you think? So do them for your family. Specialised music tuition, LAMDA, sports clubs...( I am a sports coach at a club and we are inundated with indie kids because the coaching is better at the club.) What about when your child asks for some financial help when they want to do a PhD, or to buy their first house, or some help so that they can stay at home comfortably for their first year of being a Mum. There are a myriad of times when you might question your choices as a parent and wonder if you are doing the right thing and it isn’t going to stop when they are 18. What if you put all your financial eggs in a basket for the first part of being a parent and then can’t help later? Parenting is not a sprint it is a marathon and you cannot spend on school fees thinking that their imaginary future salary will cover the things you might have liked to help with as that just isn’t the case, most ex indie kids earn pretty averagely it is the small percentage you hear about who go on to high salaries that can then perpetuate the lifestyle choices they were bought up with. What about the inherited burden you will give to your children that they too must provide fee paying education (if it is still a ‘thing’) because it was done for them. Do you want them to choose a career and number of children they have based on being able to provide what was done for them? Flash holidays and cars are the thing that are bandied about that middle class parents do with money they don’t spend on fees - we have crap cars and take our kids on language trips, historical trips, skiing trips, sports experiences, museums, galleries, giving to charity and inputting time to community, and most importantly saving for our children when they face the greatest test of their lives - adulthood! Make your lives like the private school prospectus that you wouldn’t be able to resist and pocket the difference for the your children’s secure adulthood.

Is the school in question really run down and if so are there better equipped schools? At the end of the day though if the teachers are good, the results are strong and high expectations are the norm for pupils personally I’d wonder if the odd old portacabin or two really mattered? Personally I see a great deal of benefit to children from travel and something we do invest in - it really does open up their eyes to different ways of living, history, culture, politics, geography, ethics and wildlife.