State or private

As a current university student, I think I could have some insight on this. I went to an 'outstanding' state comprehensive in nice suburbs, and academically I received as good an education as you would get in the private sector, multiple teachers having previously been high up in the treasury taught me economics. Providing the state schools fits in with the type I'm talking about here, academically your child will be at no disadvantage.
However. The massive downfall of state schools is the near complete lack of extra curriculum activities, including no sports culture, which I really feel like I missed out on. Because the only way state schools can compete on their excellence is via grades, they really only focus on this. I dont know what the pastoral care is like the private sector, but my school did nothing to aid me with my mental health issues, which are now look likely to have done irreversible damage to my university education. What I'm saying is that the state sector is absolutely great for providing the a levels they'll need to get to a good uni, but beyond that, they really do not offer much, in my experience.

When dd was at our good state comprehensive she had 6 different maths teachers in 2 years. Went private in year 9 and she's had the same brilliant teacher who she really likes for 18 months. Her maths has improved beyond recognition.

Teacher turnover was a real issue at our comprehensive.

*sorry i meant if they went to the private school I could have afforded!

This dilemma always comes up when you're one the cusp of affording private. I'm in outer London, so the options are all stressful: selective day schools, crazily superselective grammars, or the local comp and i really don't like what i see in terms of the small but definite presence of disruptive teenagers. Or move to a harder-to-commute area I'm not keen on for the sole reason of being in a comp catchment based on dept of education league results. I only have one chance, no matter what other parents say, i don't want to look back when they're in their 20s and see what "might have happened if they went to that comp"

That said, if your DC are bright (because one of mine is not or terribly unmotivated) and clearly has supportive parents - they will do just fine and most likely thrive there.

@user149799568 you’ve a really valid argument but the reality is that even at the top of a comp, the experience level of the teaching staff is going to be a lot more mixed, more recently qualified teachers and teachers in training. Comps may stream for key subjects (English, Maths, Science) but they won’t for the majority of subjects.A bright student sat in a mixed ability and not all engaged large class of 30 at a Comp isn’t necessarily on the same level playing field as a bright student in a much smaller class in a selective Private with a very experienced teacher. Quite obviously the brightest at the Comp are not going to be those that are always advantaged either.

I’m really not sure how you would go about measuring what is an advantaged child at a Comp either as I don’t think it’s as simplistic as it sounds. If you are going to go on Parental income then there are plenty of low income graduates as well as higher earners without A Levels let alone degrees who may not be able to either work with their DC or have an inclination to pay for tutoring as they may feel academic success is not the be all or end all. Parental Academic achievement? Plenty of graduates in very low paying roles who may not be able to provide individual laptops, study rooms or have the time, ability or money to tutor. Location of the Comp? We’re in a well heeled area and by and large at DDs State parents are middle class but there are some DC from very disadvantaged backgrounds. Similarly, left wing friends of ours with DS’s at a North East London Comp with a high proportion of PP and a few instances of crime have a house worth £1.5million and a household income of over £140K.

Forgot to say - single sex is, according to my girls, the best thing ever. they have so many friends and they all really support one another. There's the occasional girl being bitchy but the school resolves issues by getting the girls to think about how they make people feel when they are unkind and no-one is nasty for long. I think it's hard to understand modern girls schools unless you've been in one as lots of people remember them from years ago when they were quite stuffy and old fashioned. Now they are great - really pro-active and I know my girls will have friends for life

My girls go to a small girls' school and, whilst it's a real stretch, it's the best money I spend. The school is fantastic - amazing care and brilliant results but it is the confidence it gives the girls that makes the difference. They get so many opportunities and I can see the difference that is making to them. They really thrive in classrooms where pretty much everyone wants to learn and no-one is being disruptive. Most private schools will help you with your second child - I know ours has sibling discounts - and there are bursaries too so whilst it's a big commitment, it's one I really recommend. I'm down in Cornwall and wouldn't change their school for anything.

@SJaneS49

should in my opinion receive the same Contextual offer whether her parents are GPS or long term unemployed

In my opinion contextual offers should attempt to remedy disadvantage. The child of 2 GPs is much more likely to have their own room and a quiet place to study, much more likely to have their own laptop and high-speed internet, much more likely to have parents who monitor them in case they start slipping for whatever reason, much more likely to have tutoring for any weak subjects.

The difference in advantages within a true comprehensive is much greater than the difference in advantages between the top of the comprehensive and the bottom of a private.

A combination of a very busy social life, lack of interest in the course & relationship drama’s with her controlling girlfriend meant she was getting little work done. She paints and does graphic art, worked on friends animated films, composed synth music and got very involved with local politics. All good stuff & I’m proud of her but unfortunately all this and part time bar tending & waitressing gigs don’t always pay the rent.

SJane that’s fantastic that your dd is doing an access course in computing and AI.
She must be very intelligent to do that.
Why did she want to drop out of university?

I loathed my boarding school and most definitely wouldn’t send any child of mine to one - but quite evidently it works well for some children and parents. Yes we’re all prejudiced but I think grown up enough to admit our own experiences aren’t universal nor all schools or children identical.

In contrast @Andante57, I begged DD1 not to drop out of University and I’m very pleased that at 26 she’s doing an access course in Computing with the view to going back next year to start a degree in Computing and Artificial Intelligence. So I guess some part of me is a big sad bourgeois conformist, happy she is getting back on the expected treadmill after being a free (largely semi employed) spirit. Perhaps we don’t fall as far from the tree as we think we have!

I would move to a better area in the catchment of a good school

It’s interesting how we parents often have the uncanny knack of influencIng our children.. by wanting them to do the opposite of what they actually want or do. Probably explains why our youngest is now boarding..and is happier than we could ever wish. The joys of parenting

Op yes, that’s very true. I’ve often read on here people who hated boarding school - or their OH did - and swear they’ll never do that to their children.
I begged my dc not to go to university as neither were interested in academic work but they insisted.

Flourandeggs I’m sorry that your in laws have such unacceptable views.
I don’t know how old your children are but I guess it won’t be long before they point this out to their grandparents in no uncertain terms.

How do you advise the OP re her original post?

Hmm.....well personally it would come down to finance. If the op could afford it easily then I’d suggest independent.
However she’s got another child and she says the fees would be a squeeze.
Private school fees seem to go up every year way beyond inflation - I don’t know why this is the case - and there is nothing worse than having constant stress about money. (There’s a good description of it in D.H.Lawrence’s short story, ‘The Rocking Horse Winner’). It ruins everything and puts strain on marriages and this affects children negatively.
So were I her I’d send the children to the local state school since there’s a widely held view that it’s support from parents that has the most effect on educational outcomes.
Both mine went to well regarded public schools but neither ended up at good universities (I won’t say where as people are loyal to their and their children’s universities) because they took advantage of the excellent extra curricular stuff but didn’t do enough academic work.

@Andante57 I was thinking over what you said whilst having supper & I really was not teaching my children to sneer, at the very worst to have a giggle. And (not including you in this even if you did tick the Brexit box) the people that I was angry at, who I explained were my extended family-in-law are without doubt the most sneering, homophobic, racist, snobbish, sexist people I have met. Not because of their schooling but because of their family. So yes I did use humour to try and deal with the deep anger I felt post 2016 when they voted for Brexit on racist grounds (I’m not racist but... they are fond of saying). Many many people had very good reasons for voting for Brexit and I respect them, these particular people really did not. One of them calls black people ‘non swimmers’ have you ever heard something so awful? So sneering? So hateful. As we talked about on the previous thread having people in your extended family who are so awfuly racist makes life complicated and it isn’t as simple as removing them from your life especially when grandchildren are involved ... so how do you teach your children that they are hideously wrong for being so rascist? A bit of humour, some mild a stereotyping was what I did. However I really did go away and think about what you said a few weeks ago and we haven’t used the word ‘gammon’ since with the children. So I put my hand up and said I was wrong and went away and thought about it and moved my actions on. How about you... you seem to pop up from the sidelines to criticise people now and again but you don’t put your heart and soul on here like lots of posters, you seem to like to watch debate and criticise but not truly engage with it. How do you advise the OP re her original post?

Nothing like flogging a completely dead horse eh @Andante57

@Andante57. Gosh you were really triggered by that a few weeks ago - guessing you must have voted Brexit and have a lab, been in the army and like gilets. Yup, totally imperfect here and like I said on that thread, my way of dealing with my family voting for Brexit. I think I already apologised for offending you, but once again, I am sorry for using humour to get over my dismay at what my family had done.

Humility, charity, empathy, forgiveness, community spirit

Flourandeggs yet you think it acceptable to sneer at, and encourage your children to sneer at, anyone with among other things a labrador or who wears gilets or who’s in the army?
That doesn’t sound very charitable, humble or empathetic.

Uncommon not incommon!

Unfortunately I think homophobic bullying is not in common amongst teenage boys and to a lesser extent girls across all school sectors. It’s unpleasant and something they grow out of. It’s something schools and parents aren’t doing enough to squash - it’s damaging too for DC who are aware they are different and hear the word ‘gay’ used as something that’s weird, odd, less than. My 26 year old bisexual DD1 had a fair bit of name calling at her State school from a small group (which she dealt with) but DD2 who is 12 regularly talks about the boys on her school bus who go to a Super Selective Grammar and a well known Indie slagging each other off as ‘being sooo gay’.

This is going off thread so I’ll finish it here but as the parent of a LGBT child (now adult) teenage homophobia is neither a State or a Private school issue, it is still a societal problem. Better than it was than I was a teenager for sure and I suspect in centres like London it’s less of an issue but we’re not there yet!

@mimbleandlittlemy - that’s quite a harsh generalisation, and certainly not something we or our children have encountered. For starters, our children’s respective private schools were all quite diverse, in every sense of the word! Friendships were and still do, embrace that diversity in every way. Must be quite a select few you are referring to.