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SW London boys, 11+ grammars and independents

734 replies

Jumpalicious · 29/11/2020 13:32

Hello, I know there’s an excellent thread for the girls. Not sure if there’s one for the boys? Anyone want to come on board? I know we can’t divulge details of round two grammars since there will be late sitters, but was thinking more of a support thread. Any takers?

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TiffinIndieChoice · 03/03/2021 13:49

That is a tough choice lookhappy. I'm afraid I can't advise as only you will know if you are willing to take the risk if the % goes down, and the impact it will have on you, your family and your stress levels. I do know that independent schools regularly reassess bursaries so you may have to come to terms with it at some point over the 7 years. The problem is that there is unlikely to be a place come up again at Tiffin, until 6th form at least.

Ptarmigan68 · 03/03/2021 13:48

@lookhappy I think in your situation I would go for Tiffin.

That choice would also be favourable when it comes to uni applications in the future. There is a real focus on attracting more kids from state schools now.

Also if there is any chance you may loose some of your bursary I would stick with the certainty of Tiffin which is a top school.

Having said all that it is also important to ask your son. Where would he like to go? His happiness is the most important thing.

Hope that helps somewhat.

TiffinIndieChoice · 03/03/2021 13:37

Hi Goingcrazy101. My DS is LOVES sport. Football is not one of their major sports, but they do House football (and maybe a club), if that's really his thing. My DS played a few football matches in a tournament for his house team before lockdown, which he really enjoyed, although was annoyed his team came third!

Rugby is really good, and because a lot of boys come to the school without having played before, my DS is hoping he'll get into the A team (we'll have to see!). They are one of the top state schools in the country for cricket. It is not going to compete with an independent school for sport, as I said before, but compared to the vast majority of state schools, the sports provision is very good (the deputy head at the top independent school we were considering even acknowledged that).

One of my DS's good friends is an excellent footballer and continues to play for club out of school - that's a compromise his parents were willing to make in order to go to Tiffin. My DS wasn't keen on dance at first , but they do funky, modern dance which he now enjoys, and improves his Tik Tok moves, Yes, there are some helicopter parents, for sure, but also a lot of normal ones (like me, I would like to think). There were certainly a large number of helicopter parents at the independent school we were considering.

My DS is also more humanities focused. That was a concern of mine at first as I had the same perception, but I don't see any evidence of a focus on STEM . He is doing well in all subjects and the humanities teachers seem good so far. His English teacher seems great and provided him with a specific reading list as told her he really enjoyed reading Animal Farm. Saying this, there are seem REALLY clever mathematicians, but they are on another level and in their own small group of kids.

Hope this helps.

lookhappy · 03/03/2021 13:24

@TiffinIndieChoice that is really helpful to hear.

May I ask another question: what would you (or anyone on here!) do if the choice is a top indie with a 100% bursary (which I will lose if my income goes up, which it might) versus tiffin. I do not know what to do. I'm a single parent, my husband died some years ago, so have no-one close to consult.

Goingcrazy101 · 03/03/2021 13:17

Thanks @TiffinIndieChoice for writing this detailed analysis.

We have DS1 at Independent, but DS2 has a decent chance of getting Tiffin from waiting list so weighing everything up, as he's otherwise going to his brother's school.

My biggest worry is DS2 is bright but not overly academic IYKWIM - he likes sport A LOT - and I wonder whether those sort of boys go to Tiffin, but your post has reassured me.

I am really not sure how he will feel about dance - he's basically footie mad.

I really like the mix but also worry about a lot of helicopter parenting which if I'm honest I am really trying to escpae. DS was not overly tutored.

One other worry: he is good at Maths and English, but seems to be showing more inclination towards writing as he gets older. Does Tiffin cater for that? There seems to be a really strong Maths/STEM focus?

TIA

TiffinIndieChoice · 03/03/2021 13:14

Sterou pleasure! Hope it helps.

Sterou · 03/03/2021 13:09

@TiffinIndieChoice
Thanks for taking the time to write this up ! Could not agree more. You and I need to meet :-) lol

TiffinIndieChoice · 03/03/2021 12:54

jumpalicious. We had the same agonising decision last year: Tiffin versus a top all boys selective independent (we'd got the independent choice down to one school at that stage)

I hope this helps you, and any family looking at the same choice. I could have done with this last year..

We chose Tiffin in the end and it was completely the right choice for our family. We have experience of both independent school and grammar now within the family, so I can talk about the differences in general between private and grammar (in my experience), but also Tiffin specifically.

Really happy with Tiffin so far.

We've just had a parents evening. The teachers seem good and know my DS well (I did wonder whether they would in a class of 31 boys). DS in a class of super clever boys, but who also know how to have fun (lots of Xbox gaming during lockdown!). There are a few boys who are out of this world clever who stick out a bit, but the other boys accept them (my DS actually likes not being the cleverest kid in the class!). Lockdown provision has been excellent. It's quite a strict school with lots of rules and regulations, but I think the boys need that, and hasn't been a problem. Music, if you like it, is truly outstanding, and they encourage each boy to take up an instrument. Everyone has a chrome book for school and homework which works well (compared to the indie which doesn't specify which laptop pupils should have; consequently there is a lot of peer pressure, which I don't like). You would have to check the policy on this for the independent school you have to choose from. Mobile phones are not allowed on at Tiffin during the day.

The sport provision is great for a state school. They don't have the funds to pay for lots of ex-professional sports coaches, flashy sports facilities etc, but it has been more than enough for my DS. He is looking forward to getting back to post school rugby / cricket coaching and Friday afternoon games at their sports grounds in Thames Ditton (they bus them up there, but they need to make their own way home). There is also a brand new sports hall on the school site with updated changing facilities.

The PTA is really active - lots of motivated parents at the school, which is always a good sign.

In terms of choosing, it does depend on the family circumstances, the schools you are choosing between and, of course, the child . I personally could not (and do not) see c£150k worth (fees rise every year) of value in paying for the independent school for my DS versus Tiffin, but that was a completely personal decision and everyone is different.

You get a better customer service (teachers and staff on call any time, more or less) , smaller class sizes, shiner / better facilities with an independent school. In my experience the children are more spoon fed at an independent (my DS is motivated and wants to do well so doesn't need that). It is a nicer experience, but you pay for that. I try to avoid contacting Tiffin unless I really need to as I know they're so busy, but that's probably me. Any contact I've had, including form tutor and head of year, has been good. They are quite matter of fact and to the point, but not a problem. You definitely get more of a touchy-feely vibe at an independent school.

I love the fact Tiffin is mixed socially and ethnically. It has worked really well. My DS has a range of friends from across all backgrounds. I was worried at first as all of his peers went to comps or independents (only he and one other got a Tiffin place) so he didn't know anyone when he started, but because it is selective, lots of boys start without knowing anyone. The head said that the boys last year came from 100 different schools.

They do Latin as standard (which I was really keen on - you can also do Mandarin as an extra) and all boys do dance for two years, which, amazingly, my DS really enjoys. Drama is great too.

At a top independent I would expect you would get the contacts which may help in the future , but I think that this will become less of a thing going forward with the move by top companies to widen their access in terms of recruitment (this is happening already)

I would think the choice would be down to finances and attitude; some families have money from inheritance, bonuses etc they can spare, and others would only ever consider a private education for their DC and, if they didn't have the income, would make sacrifices for it. It depends on what you see as value for money - it's a very personal decision

If we hadn't got Tiffin, then we would have gone with the independent and tried to make it work financially. However, luckily we didn't need to and don't have that stress.

Happy to answer any specific questions. Good luck.

Sterou · 03/03/2021 12:52

@Jumpalicious

Funny you say that, because I now truly think there was a major c*ck up !! and whilst I am very happy with my DS final output, I know some of the lovely parents on this thread have expressed otherwise. Additionally in my prep school, there are some VERY disgruntled parents for 13+ process.

Is it worth raising a new thread "ISEB c*ck up 2020" ? I received a couple of PMs on this too, I know some would love to vent out and possibly officially complain!

Jumpalicious · 03/03/2021 10:26

@Sterou thank you for that excellent list. Really helpful.

Btw on the Iseb, there MUST have been a cock up with your prep schools hosting of it. There is no way in hell that your son would get into tiffin but not to various indies. But maybe it’s all worked out for the best...

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Sterou · 03/03/2021 09:49

@jumpalicious
Personally, Tiffin any time!

For the following reasons ( that might help you).

  • DS currently in Prep School and it is not diverse enough

  • We loved the pampering for tender years, the preparation and conditioning for future years, but consequently he is not "street" and too polished ( they hone too much on individual talent and push hard)

  • They also tend to pamper the parents and tell you what you want to hear as we pay handsomely

  • Way too much peer competition parents and DS alike as you get into Yr6-8 ( keeping up with the Jones)

  • Tiffin remains a boys' school, with like-minded academically able DS

  • It's Free !! (think £20K x7)

  • spend cash on taking DS on holiday and extra clubs

  • Great academic results

  • and my DS tells us: It feels good to gain entrance, it's like being part of a clever club ( his words)

Hope this helps !

Jumpalicious · 02/03/2021 22:15

@sterou we are still trying to work out what to do re tiffin vs indies. I wasn’t expecting a grammar place (he didn’t get enough to qualify for Wilson’s back in dec... so I thought the whole thing was over). Plus, Tiffin - hard to give that up. Well done your son too!

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Ptarmigan68 · 02/03/2021 21:57

@Flyingpandas
That is very exciting.

Weird this time round with 2023 entry 13+ seems a long time in the future

All the best to all your DS at their senior schools in Sep.

FlyingPandas · 02/03/2021 21:14

So pleased to hear that @GrammarHopeful. Hope DS really enjoys his time there.

How's everyone doing? We have paid our Hampton deposit and completed the coach form etc. All feels a bit surreal (in a good way) but good to have made a decision.

Jumpalicious · 02/03/2021 21:00

@GrammarHopeful hurray! That’s great news.

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GrammarHopeful · 02/03/2021 19:09

Thanks for asking, @Sterou.

DS is heading for Sutton Grammar in September. They've been very warm and accommodating (e.g. offered us a private tour of the school, took time to chat to us on Zoom, sent through additional learning materials, etc.), the education is top notch in all 'core' subjects (I sliced and diced last three years' worth of results vs. our private options) and it has the benefit of being free, so we decided to give it a go.

notabirthday · 02/03/2021 15:55

Don't suppose anyone has an offer for Wallington Boys they'll be giving up do they?! DS is on the reserve list for Trinity and yesterday we only got offered a local comp which was our 3rd choice. I am gutted for DS as he worked so hard and of the schools we looked round in yr5 (so pleased we did that given nowhere had open days this year!) that was his favourite.

Delta10 · 01/03/2021 22:20

@iffiyas - journey times are really important and it must have been a very tough decision for you.
Congratulations to everyone on the offers - I didn’t realise it would be such a rollercoaster and roll on our children being happy and settled in their chosen schools!

Iffiyas · 01/03/2021 22:10

@Delta10, distance to school influenced our final decision

EnolanotAlone · 01/03/2021 21:58

Congrats @Sterou, @Iffiyas and @Jumpalicious
Fantastic outcome!

Delta10 · 01/03/2021 21:47

@Iffiyas - what made you decide against your DS’s Sholarship offer from Epsom?

Sterou · 01/03/2021 21:42

@Grammarhopeful - how did you get on today?
@Jumpalicious - will you accept Tiffin over Indie offers?
@Iffiyas - thanks and hope the release of your offers makes someone else very happy!

Would love to hear good news on waiting list movement.

Jumpalicious · 01/03/2021 21:10

@RueDeWakening great news!

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Jumpalicious · 01/03/2021 21:10

@Sterou that’s great news. Good news on tiffin for us too. Wow, this has been a journey!

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RueDeWakening · 01/03/2021 21:09

DS1 got Wallington Boys, which we're very happy about - DD is already at Wallington Girls and both are walkable from home, so nice easy journey.

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