SW London boys, 11+ grammars and independents

I’m also wondering how it works if your child is doing well and starts getting harder and harder questions - surely they end up with lower marks than kids who stay with the easier questions?

@Jumpalicious I’d be interested as well, not that it makes any difference given the process will run as it will.

I had assumed CAT and pre-ISEB would be similar, and they are both run by GL.

I had also thought the whole point of an adaptive test was to stop clustering at the top and bottom by having exams that are too hard/too easy. Have folk heard that it hasn’t worked out like that for the schools?

@1980sMum - seems other people have chipped in in my absence ( thank you) but I keep going back to CATs because our prep school did the tests in year 5 and year 6 and also make such a big deal out of the results: i believe it is a way for the school to make suggestions for secondary schools, mostly 13+ entry btw, and to advise parents of the national level their DS falls into. I personally really like it because till then, I had no idea how talented or not my DS was.
There are 4 subjects: Verbal, Quantitative, Non verbal and spatial. Each skill area bears a maximum score of 141 against a national average of 100. Combined average across the 4 subjects, above 127 is deem very high (9 on the Staline). What is also important is the individual scores as they may indicate specific strength about the DS. For example - if seeking an academic scholarship, Quantitative is seen to be representative of Maths, a high score in this subject could be of interest in schools that promote maths etc

Just saying, but Hampton asked me for a copy of both years. I don’t believe they could be taking into account because as rightly stated above, State schools don’t always run the year 6 CATs exams and it would not be a fair comparable. Btw I am unfamiliar with Atom. But they might complement or reinforce strong ISEB scores.

The CATs details can be found here:
www.gl-education.com/media/352160/cat4-teacher-guidance-international-edition.pdf

To answer your question my DS has scored 140/141 in 2 subjects and his average is 135. But he did not get Wilson offer, at second stage, because whilst he scored highly overall, he missed the English written threshold!
#fun games

Been lurking on this thread for interest (we're going through the same process but not at the same schools). Just to say, there's very little consistency as to whether state primaries do CATs. Some do, but loads don't. I think it's a bit more common in grammar areas because Year 5 CATs give a useful indication of whether a child has a good chance of passing the 11+. My older DS got an academic scholarship a couple of years ago, and I suspect his CAT scores (around the 140 mark) did play a part in that, particularly as it wasn't an ISEB school and he may not have performed quite as well in the entrance exams as some of the prep school kids, as he didn't have lots of preparation and tutoring. The CAT scores were probably a useful indicator of potential in his case.

I do think that a lot of reference to CAT scores comes from people who may have used sites such as Atom to practise for the ISEB (and some schools have not only used it as a pre-test but THE test). Atom suggest that the scores achieved on their adaptive mock tests are roughly 8-10 points lower than CAT scores and they refer to these and CAT scores as predictors in how likely your DC is to be accepted.
BTW, I understand that state schools also do CATs in Y5 (mainly) but very rarely share these with parents...

@FlyingPandas, @EnolanotAlone: thanks very much. This made it a much better weekend for us, than the last one :) DS was like a little puppy bursting with excitement, when he was finished.

@FlyingPandas CAT scores are irrelevant- this confusion keeps cropping up and I think a bit of paranoia. ISEB scores are different and are the only ones that count - as you say it’s the scores on the day that count

@Sterou - honestly, I wouldn't stress too much on interview prep. We did none in advance apart from thinking of a question to ask about the school. On the day and with a teacher on the screen I think the DC just click into school mode, and get on with it.

@1980sMum I think it would depend on the school, but I would guess 135 for a scholarship at a very academic London school would be the bare minimum and probably nearer 140.

Although my assumption is that, for academic scholarships, the schools should be less interested in CAT scores and focus more on actual exam achievement on the day? For starters, only prep school candidates can submit CAT scores in support of their application - state schools don't do them. Does that mean these schools will only offer scholarships to prep school candidates who can provide CAT scores? That hardly seems fair (and I suspect there would be an outcry if that was the case).

@Growupsofast I wouldn’t worry too much if he doesn’t have friends in Esther IME the boys always find a way of meeting and the local boys might not be the ones he connects with.

CAT scores - I think anything above 130 is considered high. However I have a feeling that the standard for the ISEB has been so high this year that they are only considering boys with scores of 140 plus for scholarship.

@FlyingPandas good news on the interview

Yes, my impression as well about KCS. I think my biggest question when it comes down to it will be how many friends will he have locally in Esher. First need some offers before starting down that rabbit hole. The choice, if any, might be made much more simple.

@Sterou. What is considered 'high' CAT scores? I've heard that for many indies, the scores they are looking for in terms of scholarship potential is 125-130, with the most academic/in-demand London schools looking for 135+. I have no idea if this applies to Trinity/Whitgift so interested in knowing what others believe constitutes scholarship-level CAT scores. There is no easy way of finding out the ISEB score, is there?

@FlyingPandas thank you - much appreciated. If his ISEB are as high as his CATS results, we have a chance for scholarship, but he is not keen on the interview process, and won’t even practise simple questions with me... Time will tell next week. And I guess only 6 weeks till grammar schools results.. #not stressing one bit :-)

Well done @GrammarHopeful on Trinity, how is DS feeling - more postive session?

@GrammarHopeful well done to your DS on the Trinity interview, that's great news.

@Growupsofast I would assume KCS is a slight step above the other two academically but that's purely anecdotal and not backed up by any stats. My understanding from friends is that KCS, St Pauls and Westminster are viewed as the absolute best by London parents - I know of families who were adamant that only one of those three would do for their DSes and anything else would be absolutely unacceptable. But that is possibly more of a 'tiger parent' view than a 'normal' one!

RGS done now, seemed to go well, as far as you can tell with these things anyway. So now our wait begins.

@FlyingPandas Not sure tbh. I decided not to think about it until we have offers, know that might seem strange but trying not to build up too much emotional attachment. I might have a secret preference buried somewhere inside but am in denial

Do you think there is much academically between KCS, Hampton and RGS? I think travel time will be much of a muchness living for us around Esher - I looked at the train vs school bus schedule.

@FlyingPands, hope DS's interview went well today!

DS just done Trinity, and it went very well. I am so pleased and relieved...

Emanuel (our last exam) done yesterday, so only KGS interview left to do, should he be selected.

What a drawn out process it has been. Need some

Just realised I posted the Hampton pic on a separate thread about Hampton exams specifically-so here it is again for anyone interested.

@Growupsofast good luck for your DS for those interviews! What’s your preference out of your schools?

Hampton is probably our preference out of our two tbh. Both fab schools, but Hampton slightly easier to get to logistically for us (which I know is important) and it was the school I got the more positive feeling about when I did the open days last year. (That’s not to say I didn’t get a positive feeling from RGS, I absolutely did, just felt Hampton slightly edged it).

All that said though I know Hampton is the more academic and therefore harder to get into than RGS. I know various boys now in y7/y8 who didn’t pass the Hampton exam but got into RGS. I am very aware that we will be lucky to get offered even one of them, let alone have a choice!

@Sterou as I understand it, Hampton will invite around 30 boys ‘who score very highly in ISEB and impress at interview’ for academic scholarship interview. (If you look upthread, I posted a pic from the pack we were sent from Hampton at the start of the process, which details everything). It kind of suggests that they won’t be organising scholarship interviews until all initial interviews are done but I don’t really know if I’m honest. I’m not expecting DS to be in the scholarship pool!

Hamptons interview next week for DS, has anyone sussed the academic scholarship process?

From doing the ISEB in Nov to interviews thru Jan. This has been a drawn out process - kids, schools and parents must be tired. On the bright side less time to wait with nothing to do till we all find out the results of the applications.