When to begin preparing for 11+ grammar? Should I hire a tutor? What are the alternatives?

We hired a tutor as we work full time and wanted the weekends to have fun with our children. They were also more likely to agree to be taught by someone else!

RueDeWakening. That is tutoring. You just didn't pay for it!

My daughter is in year 9 at a Sutton grammar without tutoring, my year 6 son has passed the first stage test for the Sutton grammars without tutoring too (second stage is happening next weekend).

In year 4 we concentrated on times tables, that was about it.
Year 5 had various things to practise at home - SPAG, comprehension, maths word problems, usually 3-4 times a week for about 30 minutes.

Over the summer (and this term, as the test was delayed) we used past papers, and online mocks, mostly to practise answering at the right sort of speed. (In spite of this, son came out of his English test and announced he only used about half the time available ).

It might depend on your test format though - Sutton grammars are purely maths and English based, there's no VR or NVR papers.

In terms of time spent tutoring, because we started so late (June of Y5), I think DD was doing more like 3 or more hours a week. 1 hour with the tutor, but then she would have to do a couple of practice papers during the week to go over with the tutor. These were 50 minutes at least, but often longer as she would do the extra questions when she'd run out of time, and then go back and try the ones she'd got wrong again. And that was pretty light tutoring as far as I know. It was fine in lockdown and summer holidays but felt pretty intensive once school started again. Luckily her exam was early so only needed to do both for a month or so.

@whataboutbob and @nobleElephantheThird Interesting. I really don't get that that's the way in my part of London. I mean the wealthy don't even go to day indies, they are going for boarding schools (specific ones). I know many that got places at selective (not only selective in name) indies but turned them down for grammar schools. I know of course many that also never even considered grammar schools as their DCs were already in a good indie.

We are by no way wealthy but had the money put aside for all 7 years. We preferred the grammar because of being more diverse (yes, I know it is not socially diverse compared to the local comp but certainly from an ethnical perspective and definitely in all senses compared to the selective indie). But most importantly, DC preferred the grammar due to the diversity. I know many that chose the grammar over the (selective and super popular) indie and not because of money. We can instead give DC a deposit for the first flat/House without DC having a less good education. Plus DC will get to make friends with a more diverse cohort. It's a win-win situation.

Yes, and for some private school can be a bit of a status symbol to show how well you're doing.

@NobleElephantheThird I think it’s definitely a pattern, in London at least. I have to say it probably worked in our favour as DS was out of area and got in on the waiting list. If all kids had taken their place and not gone to independents, he probably wouldn’t have got a place. The wealthy probably make the calculation that the added value of a good independent will surpass a grammar.

@whataboutbob - interesting, same in our area of South East London, the properly rich and professional City jobs are still going for selective independent schools over the superselective grammars. It is the squeezed middle (public sector, NHS doctors, teachers etc) and Asian families mainly going for the grammars. What surprised me the most was that quite a few friends who had been to grammar themselves but made it in the City did not send their kids to the grammars and not because they didn’t get in.

For my DS we used a national chain of tutors from September Year 5 (80 minutes a week) but the work ramped up rapidly from January. I would not recommend that approach as a lot of it was computer based then they dumped a lot of past papers on us. We also used CGP books. Too late in the day I heard about a sort of 11+ exam establishment that is practically a feeder for the grammars and is very specific about what it teaches, plus all the relevant exam techniques. My DD went there and we were much more confident that we were in safe hands. I wish we’d have found it earlier. £35 for two hours a week (not London!) in term time and money well spent. We could have done it ourselves I suppose but you need to know what specific question types will be asked. I had no qualms about farming the job out to someone else. It goes beyond a financial divide as whatabout says, knowledge and motivation plays a big part.

OP, to ease you in and identify gaps, Bond (OUP) has some online material and tests. You can sign up to a minimum of 3 months (something like £6 a month I think). This is unlikely to be enough on its own though - just something to start with in early Year 5 - we found Bond on the easier side. Then you can use other resources, CGP is one we liked, to help fill any gaps.

I also second the PP who mentioned the Manchester Grammar past papers, which are available on their website, for when it's time to do more challenging past papers, probably not until mid-Year 5. Also the Primary Maths Challenge is worth a look.

Yes, my son is in year 7 at Wilson's, which is a super-selective in London borough of Sutton with no catchment.

No hired tutor, just me for 1-2 hours a week from Oct Year 5. I don't necessarily think that would work for everyone though and I understand why most hire tutors. I had the time after school and DS accepted me in that role (as well as being quick and able in that level of maths and English obviously). I feel like I'm too much of a control freak to hand it over to a third party anyway

@ Wigeon @EasternDailyStress I agree the system is totally unfair. In my area of SWLondon from what I’ve seen it’s not the particularly wealthy who get in to the super sélectives. It is very much the kids of middle class parents who couldnt afford private, and second generation immigrants esp from Indian sub continent. Personally I live in a not party attractive area of zone 3, both husband and I work in public sector. Squeezed middle , that’s us. I spotted my second son had potential and set out to do what it took to enable him to get into the best school for him. The unfairness probably resides in the uneven distribution of parental motivation , support and understanding of the admission process.

Many people have a tutor for all of year 5. Mocks are the most useful thing. We found a tutor useful because dcs had a structure and reason to to do their work, it depends on how your dcs react to you ‘teaching me them (mine react badly 🤣) but they are hard workers! Ask your dcs’ teacher if, in their experience, children similar to your dc have passed the 11+.

We’re not in London, we didn’t tutor our twins. They both passed, some tense moments opening the results letters! We’re out of county for their schools, so there was no prep done at their primary. DS was sent a practice test, DD wasn’t. We bought some practice books and helped them where they were struggling but only started Easter on year 5 and weren’t militant about it.

And there is also the house price issue - that houses likely to get your DC in on distance are more expensive. So another unfair advantage to parents with enough money.

It's the prep that is important, not if there's a tutor or not involved. I also saw the tutor as an opportunity to see if DC was responsible enough to manage it all without my involvement (I personally don't believe in "bribing" with money or game time). I reckon that is much more important for future "success".

I know tons of educated people who didn’t hire a tutor. But you do need to make your child do the relevant past papers and go through mistakes and get them up to scratch on speed/accuracy. The best thing to do first is get hold of past papers for the school you are targeting and work out from there which books to practise with (especially understanding which exam board eg CEM vs GL). Exam technique is also very important. I have also witnessed people spend a fortune on tutors etc for upper average kids who then struggle. With a clever child and exam focus it really doesn’t have to be that much work. We also found sitting a mock exam in the summer term very helpful. They grade you relative to others so if in May you are ranking 50/1000 you know your child will be fine. Again mock exam providers tailor mock exams to the applicable schools. You should get tons of information on the 11 plus forum.

If your child is at a good prep and top sets then you will find they have probably covered all the topics they need for the grammar 11+.

It then is just a case of familiarity with the exam format, types of questions, exam technique, speed and accuracy. All of this really can be done at home if you have the time and patience if you just buy some books e.g. CGP ones

My daughter was the only one at her prep who wasn’t formally tutored and the head told us we were being very brave as EVERYONE else was. He was very supportive of us as he felt very strongly that she was Grammar material and wished more parents would listen to the school with regards suitability. So many children are put through these tests who are heavily tutored and have, quite frankly, miserable lives in the run up to the exams and then don’t make the grade. It’s heartbreaking.

Anyway, she passed with flying colours and it didn’t feel at all stressful. She went through the “how to” CGP books for VR and NVR and then we mainly used the 10 minute tests books. She did no more than an hour a week. In the summer holidays she did some full length tests twice a week and that was it.

I can understand time short parents or those who don’t feel they have the skills turning to tutors to help prepare though. For us we just didn’t need one.

Oh, and don’t dismiss all the prep your child is doing at school for independent school admissions. There is a lot of overlap.

@karmi2010 I'd say DC spent about another 60-90 minutes a week at home max. And since DC went to a primary with no homework, I didn't feel that was too much.

@EasternDailyStress Yes, the past was always better. I come from a country where this malarkey doesn't exist at all and IMHO that is even better. But you accept what's available or you move. Simple as.

Anyway, I think the work needed (or not) varies between areas. If you're in a proper grammar school area, the competition for each place is less unlike the super-selective London ones.

Also, as the children are being tested on the Yr6 curriculum at the start of Yr6, what options do you have unless you come from an indie that is ahead? Should the grammar schools only be for children coming from indies? I don't know if all grammar schools have it, but I know schools where they have different scores required if a child is on FSM to try to even out opportunities to prepare due to finances.

A probably very silly question but still :) I keep reading about «tutor for 1 hour a week “ - does it mean just that, 1 hour with a tutor and that’s it? Or does it actually mean 1 hour with a tutor plus another 5 hours a week Doing the homework/test/past papers given by that tutor?

I find all of this really sad. When I took my 11+ exam many years ago, we were just handed a test one day and took it.

There was no planning, or practising or tutoring. I think, if we still need to have grammar schools in this day and age, that it should be based on assessment over the child's school career, not just base it on who can afford extra tuition.

Sorry forgot too that the tutoring was in Yr5. As the primary had no homework, it wasn't too much for DC with that one hour of tutoring.

My dd got into a super selective London grammar with an hour or so home preparation per week in Y5 (and a bit more in the summer holiday before Y6) focusing on exam technique, the Y6 maths curriculum she hadn’t yet covered, and NVR. That focus was because she was stronger in English than in Maths. We also paid for a mock test in exam conditions (somewhere in Sutton - it may have been the official Sutton grammar mocks) to give her the experience of how it would be as she’d never done an exam before. She was at a good state primary, not a prep. So it is doable.