A-level choices: engineering-----architecture

Hi my son has just finished applied geology has gone straight into a job and has been offered the chance to go chartered engineer or geologist he did three sciences and Spanish at A-level at sixth form

Dd is pretty shit at drawing/sketching. Scraped a C in gcse art and didn’t do A-level. She did have a fairly varied portfolio but it was limited on sketches/painting.

One of her modules in Year One was a weekly sketching class and i think that helped improve her skills a lot.

This thread is making me think of the Big Bang Theory & Sheldon looking down on Engineers (&Geologists).

“With all respect, I cannot believe that architecture courses will be preferring people who can draw realistic pictures of still life over people who can do 3D modelling, technical drawing and have some great ideas. The problem with Art A level is that it is very traditional. I think if an architecture course prefers a traditional artist, it's not worth going there.”

Without getting into why you think Art A level is ‘traditional’ (because in my experience it doesn’t have to be at all, even years ago when I did it before studying architecture) I would perhaps discount an Architecture degree if your DC doesn’t like to express ideas through freehand sketching. Although CAD is the tool for detailed design, sketching is still the medium of trying out and presenting initial ideas as an architect. Most universities will need to see some evidence of those skills, and even looking beyond the course - if you want to actually be an architect, it’s really important. A student may be able to show a real passion for architecture and buildings through photography and video that may get them into a course, but they would still need to pick up a pencil at some point during the course I’m sure!

I would try and get your DC a few days work experience ASAP in an architects office to see if its really something they would want to do as it is a very difficult profession to understand. I had no idea what I was getting myself into at that age!

No Civils are not the bottom rung. That’s laughable.

I think that was very much a rather narrow architect's-eye-view hierarchy rather than indicative of any relative worth of types of engineer in a wider context. The fact is, the modern world needs all of them, and within each discipline there will be different levels of role.

Few people these days are chartered at both Civil and structural engineering. Most grads end up specialising and it now takes years to get chartered. DH is a Fellow in both but that’s pretty difficult now. You do study both in a Civil Engineering degree as well as environmental engineering which is now very important.

Architects don’t lead big infrastructure projects. So flood alleviation, drainage, roads, bridges, major structural design of buildings, railways, docks, tunnels, sewerage schemes is civil and structural engineering. In fact everything you take for granted in every day life! Architects make it look nice.

No Civils are not the bottom rung. That’s laughable. It also shows a degree of ignorance about the fact that no large building can be designed by an architect alone. Engineers must be involved to ensure safety of the design. If they are not it can be catastrophic - see the house in Chelsea that collapsed.

@istherelifeafter40 To answer your question regarding structural versus civil engineering, yes ime most people do a civil engineering degree (all of which have a lot of emphasis on structural engineering anyway) and then specialise afterwards. You can become a chartered civil or structural engineer or both, depending on how your career pans out. I think there are a few unis offering Structural Engineering degrees but I’m not convinced there is a benefit to specialising from the start.

I think you also asked earlier about degrees with a common first year or general engineering degrees. I think these are useful options if the student is not certain which branch of engineering to go for or if they don’t plan to work as an engineer afterwards. You would need to check the course specification to see how flexible they are & what the different paths are.

(DD does Maths, Physics, a language and Art. Her EPQ, her main Art project and her individual research topic for her language A-level are all architecture-based, just to ensure that all the work she does is useful in as wide a range a contexts as possible)

In the throes of architecture applications here....

Be aware that is it normal to send in a portfolio as part of the application. This looks specifically at DRAWING skills (one does require some photos, but it is an outlier). In particular they seem to be looking for evidence of drawing 'from life', either of people or buildings, and evidence of representing things in different media (e.g. a 3D piece etc).

Some also require Art A-level (there is,.as others have said above, a continuum between design-based and engineering based courses, with Cambridge being an outlier as having a strong History focus). Those on the design-based end are more likely to require Art.

So if taking Photography, your DS would also need to keep up 'art' skills for the portfolio, and the 'double work' involved, especially with 4 A levels anyway, would be considerable.

chemical engineering by then, which is essentially applied chemistry, very different from anything else 'engineering'.

It's different to the other eng fields but as a chemist I wouldn't really call it 'applied chemistry'. (DH was sometimes surprised that some excellent chemical engineers didn't seem to know that much chemistry.)

biochemical engineering (or genetic engineering, cell engineering etc) is completely different to the other engineering disciplines.

I thought a lot of of biochemical engineering was a sub-branch of chem eng but for biological chemical processes (often food related)? Though now there may be crossover with biotechnology.

To answer a question from far upthread, biochemical engineering (or genetic engineering, cell engineering etc) is completely different to the other engineering disciplines. You would need a degree in biochemistry or similar. A levels ideally biology, chemistry, maths, but maths could be swapped out if he didn't want to do it.
There are tons of jobs in the UK for life sciences, especially if you are in the technology hub of Oxford, Cambridge, London.

TBH I doubt if photography would be much help for architecture. It us usually under the portfolio of art subjects so very different from the sciences. Ideally given his future intentions he should be considering maths, further maths, physics and chemistry if he has to do 4 but most unis require only 3 so not sure why he would do 4.

Got A at chemistry A level as needed for biology at Imperial. Anything I know about engineering is indirect and through many engineer friends. BTW I wouldnt necessarily recommend imperial as a graduate myself.... its nice to have the balance of arts students (I stayed in intercollegiate halls which I would recommend) and as I think you've noticed from the 'obnoxiously named dyson institute ' it is very 'corporate' compared to other unis.

I should have said getting Chartered at 25 is very quick these days. Most are older.

Be very careful with motorsport. It’s wildly competitive to get into. It’s got engineers from all over the world.

I would like to correct the Architect about getting qualified as an Engineer - CEng. It’s rarely quicker than becoming a Chartered Architect. Being an Incorporated Engineer might be quicker but you are not comparing like with like. Most Engineers won’t be Chartered until they are 25 these days. The CPD has extended the post grad training for many. If you are BEng it will take longer than MEng.

Anyone who refuses to recruit from Bath for Architecture is not looking at university grads from the second highest ranked Architecture school - behind Cambridge at no 1 in the complete university guide. Sheffield and Strathclyde are above UCL. Times change and not everyone can go to UCL. Fortunately most Architecture practices know this and do not cut grads out when selecting by university attended. DH would never do this when recruiting engineers. It’s quite possible to find excellent people where you least expect them to be.

@randomsabreuse Maths A level has changed a lot since you did it! I really wouldn’t recommend doing it without some enjoyment of the subject unless he is very naturally gifted and as he’s in set 2 that seems unlikely.
Engineering (certainly mechanical and civil, I don’t know much about chemical) has a very high mathematical content, it seems like that wouldn’t be the best choice for him.