A-level choices: engineering-----architecture

My husband is head of something financial and he says he advises students to engineering that over economics now so if he changed his mind and wanted to go into finance that opens another career path up to him.

It is still the case that students without an art qualification can put together a portfolio (friend’s DC had to do this) - for instance, Queen’s Belfast has this advice on putting together a portfolio:

www.qub.ac.uk/schools/NBE/About/Files/Filetoupload,790469,en.pdf

I'm an architect. I did Maths, Physics and Art A levels. My DH is also an architect and he did Maths , Physics and Economics. Those that didn't take art were expected to put together a portfolio of their own art work for interview. I assume that is still the case.

I'd echo what @PresentingPercy said about people thinking only degrees from Cambridge or Imperial type universities are worth having.
When I did my degree at what was Coventry Poly in the long distant past, it was understood that red brick universities were much more focused on 'book learning' whereas polys were more practical. For example, we did practical surveying every week for the whole course and any of us could have walked into a surveying job after graduating. Allegedly, the red bricks had one afternoon of surveying during the whole degree course.

(Off to design some wing walls now...)

DH did the hours as a young grad engineer but got excellent pay. We saved a house deposit in 6 months back then. Was CEng MICE at 24. After the scheme finished he moved on and became a partner in his firm at 27. Got MIStructE at 28. Never worked all hours or long hours and little unsocial hours site work really after that. However as the firm grew the rewards were high. But not everyone runs their own company or would wish to. Not everyone gets the opportunity. However it’s not always necessary to work on site for long periods away from home either. None of DHs engineers have ever done that.

dh used to work long hours and a lot of working away from,, all over the world, this was when he was in semiconductors and then moved to marine industry. However he moved to "big pharma" and took a bit o step backwards, gets more money, bonuses and is now home by 5 or 6 at the latest after many years of lucky if he was home by 9!

We were northern. DH immediately doubled his base salary by going back into his first degree field, and was then earning more than the principal engineer with 20+ years in charge of the department. At the time my SIL, as a pensions advisor with a handful of O-levels to her name, was earning double that again.

And yes, it can be very long hours as an engineer on site, often during winter weather, plus lots of pressure if you're dealing with overnight road or lane closures / line closures etc. I spent 6 months on one project working 400 miles away from home, not exactly easy to make it home for a weekend.

DH has his own consultancy and that was very lucrative. Not so much now! You have to go that way to make money. Clients now want a lot more for less fees and its important to offer what they want or you simply do not get the work. You have to be commercial to make money.

Pay is not terribly low for engineers in terms of what others get but progress can be slow up the food chain. That is why grads don't stay in engineering. However, clients are always trying to cut costs and engineers do not get work if they over inflate prices. In fact plenty do work where they will not make much money. However salaries have to be competitive or you lose staff - as you have said. There is a big gap between North and South. Northern salaries go a lot further as house prices are less though.

DH never expected long hours. Always prefered people to be bright and well rested. Occasionally it is all hands to the pump but not all the time.

We also need to pay engineers and value their work a lot more in the UK.

DH and I both quit engineering because of long hours and low pay (and we were both MSc qualified and chartered).

I also think the term “engineer” is used loosely in this country. Unlike Germany where its known to describe a professional person with high level qualifications. So we think an engineer mends the dishwasher. Or repairs a car. We don’t differentiate between engineers with no higher education and those who have attained Chartered status which has taken a masters level qualification and years of CPD. It’s never acceptable for a paralegal to be called a barrister but engineer isn’t a protected title and anyone can use it. Therefore everyone is confused! My least young people who don’t realise what higher qualifications mean and what you need to do to get them.

It’s not remotely helpful either for posters to always refer to Imperial and Cambridge snd general engineering. All of these are for a tiny minority of students. The former very bright students with Further Maths in many cases. This totally ignores all the other excellent courses for engineers, many of which are at former polys! These grads are very employable and are more likely to apply for engineering jobs as opposed to city ones. We need these grads. We also need to educate the public about engineering and the professional status of the role. We need to be far less snobby about degrees. Cambridge and Imperial are not attainable by the vast majority. But it doesn’t matter!!! Any engineering grad will get a decent education more or less anywhere and, if they really understand the subject, will be employable. Posters mostly don’t employ anyone and have limited knowledge of employing grad engineers. Most are not employed by the big household name consultancies. Ditto architects. That doesn’t mean they cannot earn well and have a great job. Employers are far more concerned about what you can do, not whether Cambridge or Imperial was your Alma mater.

But surely, it's fairly obvious that engineering is going to be very maths focussed?

Because he didn’t know what was involved? That’s why the op was asking I think.

Perhaps it's just me, but if your DS doesn't enjoy maths, why is he thinking about going into such maths heavy degrees?

And sadly known about by few people except those in the know. Schools need to do a lot more to help engineers. They willnot all get scholarshios but engineering clubs at school should be available to pupils who might want this career. At the very least to explore avenues of engineering and expand the knowledge of students.

For budding engineers who are currently in Year 11 and going into 6th form next year
The Arkwright Scholarship is now open for application
Its basically £600 for student , money for school , a mentor from industry and invitation to various engineering events

My DH made models at home! Surgical in those days! Modified models too! Also the budding engineers at school built a mini rail with linear induction engine power! He went with the school to engineering lecturers by a star lecturer at a nearby university - with the school! He even was able to do an entry to architecture design course! Chose to be an engineer though. So make things. Think about how they work and what could be a better design. Experiment. Schools are poor with helping engineers these days. They could do so much more!

An older friend studied Architecture at a neighbouring college. Her A levels were in Maths, Physics and Art.

My understanding is that these 3 A-levels are the most common combination amongst architecture students at Cambridge.

DD1 is a current 4th year Cambridge NatSci student. Your DS definitely does not need Biology. DD took Maths, FM, Physics & Chemistry A levels. In the first year, Maths is compulsory whereas I think you can choose any of the other modules. DD went in as a Chemist, but having done Chemistry & Materials Science in year 2, chose to specialise in Materials Science last year and this year and is loving it.

An older friend studied Architecture at a neighbouring college. Her A levels were in Maths, Physics and Art. There was a LOT a sketching needed for Architecture right through the course.

Most people here are correct about Engineering. If your DS is not sure what he wants to do, a general first year might be a good idea. The engineering institutions might be a good place to start as they do good things with outreach and schools liaison. Your DS could look up the main ones and contact them for information. My DH used to teach in an Engineering department at a Russell group university and has interviewed countless 6th formers. He was looking for someone passionate about the subject, someone who went beyond the classroom to find things out. He loved having youngsters in who could talk about a Lego model they had built or something they had constructed from Meccano or the like.

All DC now will train post A level (Apprenticeships) or post degree. There are loads of BEng sandwich courses at the old polys. These are truly excellent degrees and get students in the workplace which adds value. Often, when the students apply for jobs, they have a great cv and hit the ground running. It’s not just electronics where this work experience is useful. It’s something a lot of students should consider if they are BEng type students.

I tend to think the advice on MN can be very narrow because parents are not engineers working in the field. Academic engineers have their place, of course, but often engineers are running projects that are fairly minor but still important. Not everyone will work for Ove Arup or Rolls Royce or Mercedes F1. Engineers will work for a whole variety of employers and might even become employers one day, as DH did at 27.

One of the big problems we have with engineering is that some of the best grads don’t stay in engineering. They go into the finance sector or similar. Engineering is a vehicle to another career. As a result some engineering professions have continual shortages and are not attractive enough to some high flying individuals.

DH is an incorporated engineer (electonics) He left school at 15 (august baby) did an old fashioned apprenticeship, did a few diplomas as well.
They are crying out for people like DH as he and so many similar engineers are retiring in the next 10 years

It’s like any other profession, it’s well paid when you work for a bigger well known practice, if you work for Joe Bloggs in the local town it won’t be great.

DH has worked with numerous mid range architects down the years. They are not “academic” in the traditional sense but they have vision and the necessary skills to work the vision up into plans and explain them to clients. You will notice from many tv programmes, that designing to a budget isn’t always a strength. DH sometimes thinks that running their practices on a budget isn’t a great strength either. Hence the profession can be precarious at times. A good architect is creative and finds solutions as well as fulfilling the brief of the client within a budget. Good Engineers do exactly the same.

There are lower routes for qualification as an Engjneer. Incorporated Engineers are valued but often they won’t make it to the top of a company as they don’t have Chartered status. However if DC isn’t so academic, they can access a BEng course and take the Incorporated Engineer route. There’s still work out there!

Architecture is quite creative. I’d suggest design, photography or graphics courses if he’s planning on that route. But apparently architecture is also relatively low paid so you might want to research job opportunities before making a decision.