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GCSE: two individual science subjects instead of combined science?!

82 replies

gcsepanicmum · 21/10/2020 20:35

DS's school doesn't offer triple science so everyone was supposed to do combined science. It was a bit of shame as he was really strong at maths and science. But it was still OK as I knew triple science wasn't a necessity to study a science subject for A-level and at uni.

Today, I found out that the school was planning to drop combined science and instead encouraging the pupils to do chemistry and biology as a separate subject (no physics). DS knows it will narrow down his choices for A-level so feels a bit sad but says he would do chemistry for A-level anyway. It's true he really likes chemistry at the moment but he's as good at physics. He might change his preference then regret he let physics go so early. They still cover physics in lessons though, at least for now.

I am trying to understand the impact of this for his future. I see physics will be 100% out but what else I should know? Doing only two individual science subjects is going to be a disadvantage if he wants to pursue a science subject/career later? I am seriously thinking if we should move him before too late. He's very capable academically.

OP posts:
ScrapThatThen · 22/10/2020 16:17

Contact the school asap to insist on a physics route for your son.

CraftyGin · 22/10/2020 16:11

@TicTacTwo

Back in my day 3 single sciences were offered and we were allowed to pick 2. (I did physics and chemistry) Our school offers single science (3 sciences in 1 qualification) for people only taking a few GCSEs so they reach the 5 GCSEs needed for studying courses beyond GCSE level. Based on what you say about your son's strengths I think that not studying gcse physics is a big problem.
What specification is this?

The reforms a few years ago did away with Core Science.

CraftyGin · 22/10/2020 16:09

This sounds crazy.

I occasionally allow a weak student to take a single science, but it is 50% more content. They would also have MH needs where they cannot entertain the mere thought of the broad curriculum.

2 single sciences is the same amount of time as Combined Science.

I imagine they are suggesting this because they can’t get a Physics specialist, but as others have pointed out, all Science teachers should be able to rise to the full breadth of GCSE.

I also agree with the PP who said that Physics is easier than Biology (equations vs literacy).

Revengeofthepangolins · 22/10/2020 15:59

@gcsepanicmum

I understand the majority of schools offer at least combined science. Is there any school where they offer separate and let pupils take only two? If so why? I heard a single science is almost no point of doing. But how about two? For me, it has to be all three for GCSEs so either combined or triple.
Curiously, my boys’ independent schools, both highly selective, so allow boys to drop one is the three single sciences in year 11 under various circumstances. At the most academic of the two most boys have to drop a subject going into year 11 (all a bit odd) and a science is allowable, although I think only about 10-12 out of the 150 odd generally do.

But they have the choice of all 3. I can’t imagine a school not doing physics A level, let alone gcse. What about engineers, architects, mathematicians, natural scientists, etc? Truly odd

MrsAvocet · 22/10/2020 15:22

That's terrible. Giving up physics so early closes a lot of doors. I would move schools rather than accept this.

Ketopenguin · 22/10/2020 15:18

For me, it has to be all three for GCSEs so either combined or triple. It makes so much more sense to do combined rather than just choosing 2 as it gives the kids an understanding of all the sciences, even if you had already decided to specialise in one, say biology, an understanding of physics and chemistry would still be helpful in your biology A levels.
In my dds case she wasn't planning to go on with science but she enjoyed her stem GCSEs (she also did computer science and engineering) so much she decided to carry on with physics halfway through the year.

titchy · 22/10/2020 14:41

Our school offers single science (3 sciences in 1 qualification) for people only taking a few GCSEs

Sadly that doesn't exist anymore - Mr Gove did away with combined science single GCSE. Sad

OP an utterly appalling stance to take. No one will be able to study physics A level without having done it as part of combined GCSE. I think also goes against the national curriculum, but I'm guessing this is an academy so it can theoretically teach whatever it wants.

TicTacTwo · 22/10/2020 14:27

Back in my day 3 single sciences were offered and we were allowed to pick 2. (I did physics and chemistry)
Our school offers single science (3 sciences in 1 qualification) for people only taking a few GCSEs so they reach the 5 GCSEs needed for studying courses beyond GCSE level.
Based on what you say about your son's strengths I think that not studying gcse physics is a big problem.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/10/2020 11:41

DDs school (a GS, and before the reforms so not exactly comparable) only did single sciences. But they all had to do all three; literally one or two who were struggling were allowed to drop one of them (it was always chemistry, I think).

Seeline · 22/10/2020 11:38

IF your DS is really keen on maths and sciences, I would be extremely concerned that he was effectively having to rule out A level physics at this stage. It is the cornerstone for many - if not most - engineering type degrees (of which there is a vast array) as well as computing, maths, design etc.

I would seriously consider moving him if this really is what the school are planning.

gcsepanicmum · 22/10/2020 11:36

I understand the majority of schools offer at least combined science. Is there any school where they offer separate and let pupils take only two? If so why? I heard a single science is almost no point of doing. But how about two? For me, it has to be all three for GCSEs so either combined or triple.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 22/10/2020 11:33
  • All Science teachers can teach to combined level in The other two subjects (even if begrudgingly!) this is totally unacceptable.

As a physics teacher I think this is very strange and reflects both their lack of ability to find physics teachers (possibly not their fault) and the inflexibility of their chemistry teachers (definitely their fault!)*

There's a shortage of chemistry teachers too, tbf.
But I'd have thought physics could be taught by some of the technology type teachers who unfortunately may not be being employed much in their specialisms nowadays.

....all these shortages of STEM teachers will only be compounded if schools are allowed to exclude their pupils from multiple branches at once by not teaching physics (some of the S, most of E and T, some of the M).

TeenPlusTwenties · 22/10/2020 11:32

Is this state or private?
If state I am amazed they are permitted to do this.
If private I am amazed paying parents would be happy with substandard service.

Quarks69 · 22/10/2020 11:22

@cantkeepawayforever

DD is doing Science A-levels on the back of combined - no issue at all, very high up in her groups despite almost all of the others having done triple (she moved schools for 6th form).

I would probe the school very carefully, including writing to the governors, getting absolutely everything in writing and, if necessary, raising the question with Ofsted, as my understanding that this 'cherry picking' of single sciences isn't allowed. I suspect they're a teacher or two down and are hoping to cover up.

Definitely write to governors...and ofsted. If a school fails to provide a core subject like physics then ofsted need to know.

All Science teachers can teach to combined level in The other two subjects (even if begrudgingly!) this is totally unacceptable.

As a physics teacher I think this is very strange and reflects both their lack of ability to find physics teachers (possibly not their fault) and the inflexibility of their chemistry teachers (definitely their fault!)

CarrieBlue · 22/10/2020 10:44

Physics gcse is easier than biology if you can stick numbers in an equation - loads easier than making sure you include precisely the right word in an explanation.

Teachers should be qualified to teach all three sciences even if not a specialist physics teacher so there’s no excuse for such a terrible decision. If you can move your child, I would

TicTacTwo · 22/10/2020 09:17

Is it a very small school if there's no A-level physics? I would have thought that the 3 sciences were taught at all schools, especially when physics is useful for many jobs like engineering and computer science.

My dd is predicted an A at A-level biology and did Combined Science

Comefromaway · 22/10/2020 09:10

That is really odd.

Ds's school (he left last summer (Easter due to covid)) only offers single sciences but it offers all three and you have to do at least two.

Aknifewith16blades · 22/10/2020 09:05

I would have significant concerns that not providing GSCE level education in Physics would affect learning in other subjects (the other sciences and maths), both now and in the future.

Perfectly fine to offer combined science across all 3 subjects, but to randomly stop one is deeply concerning and I would be complaining to the governors/ thinking about moving school.

TeenPlusTwenties · 22/10/2020 08:14

That is atrocious!
I'd seriously consider moving elsewhere.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/10/2020 22:52

They don't offer physics for A-level so that might be a reason for dropping physic from GCSE? We always thought DS could move for A-level if he wanted to study physic after GCSEs - it was perfectly manageable with good double science grades.

It's bad they don't offer physics at A level as it's a crucial subject for so many further options, but as you say, pupils can go elsewhere - if they've done the gcse or double science. Physics teachers are in short supply so maybe that explains the A levels, but graduates from most other STEM disciplines should be able to cope with teaching the physics element of double science I'd have thought.

gcsepanicmum · 21/10/2020 22:33

No he doesn't know what he wants to go on to do but wants to do maths for his A-levels just because he likes it rather than having a particular career in mind. The other subject he always liked was chemistry but he also reads lots of physics related books for fun so he seems to enjoy both. He's less keen on biology but still good at it too.

The school hasn't announced the change officially yet. Apparently they are going to inform us next term. So I don't know the real reason for this change yet. They don't offer physics for A-level so that might be a reason for dropping physic from GCSE? We always thought DS could move for A-level if he wanted to study physic after GCSEs - it was perfectly manageable with good double science grades.

The school is perfect otherwise. DS is really happy there and wouldn't want to move.

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 21/10/2020 21:35

I am seriously thinking if we should move him before too late.

If that means he is currently in Y9 - do it.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/10/2020 21:33

DD is doing Science A-levels on the back of combined - no issue at all, very high up in her groups despite almost all of the others having done triple (she moved schools for 6th form).

I would probe the school very carefully, including writing to the governors, getting absolutely everything in writing and, if necessary, raising the question with Ofsted, as my understanding that this 'cherry picking' of single sciences isn't allowed. I suspect they're a teacher or two down and are hoping to cover up.

TheLetterZ · 21/10/2020 21:30

@Misssugarplum12764

V odd and I’m sure state schools aren’t allowed to do this!
They aren’t really but some keep up a little bit of physics teaching (with no exam) as a box ticking exercise.

Combined is perfectly fine to go onto A-levels, there is no requirement to do the three separates. Personal opinion is that it is better to do 2 than squeeze 3 into the same time. If enough time given then it should be student choice.

TheFallenMadonna · 21/10/2020 21:28

Encouraging them?