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Denied Education for wearing a face mask

170 replies

Sumh · 28/09/2020 09:37

I’m on the NHS extremely vulnerable shielding category. My 12 year old daughter is attending state secondary school. She is being denied to enter her classroom because she chooses to wear a plain cloth face mask. She has been left outside the class on her own with little provided worksheets to work on her own but no directed teaching.

The DfE ‘guidance’ on face coverings in education August 26 to schools highlights it’s just a ‘guidance’ and not mandatory, that it is not necessary/recommended/ to wear face mask because it may hinder communication by wearing face masks in education,

“ On the basis of current evidence, in light of the mitigating measures education settings are taking, and the negative impact on communication, face coverings will not generally be necessary in the classroom even where social distancing is not possible. There is greater use of the system of controls for minimising risk, including through keeping in small and consistent groups or bubbles, and greater scope for physical distancing by staff within classrooms. Face coverings can have a negative impact on learning and teaching and so their use in the classroom should be avoided.”

but then fines of not wearing face masks in other settings are doubling, retail business staff now have to wear face masks, a legislation is in place enforcing wearing of face mask above the age of 11 in certain settings and plus the booth were cabinet ministers stand and give press briefing has 3 pictures, one is a face mask. All of this is an implied message to the public of how important it is to wear a face mask.

With all this message including WHOs recommendation that all 12 years plus should wear face mask, is it right that a U.K. state school should be denying a child from her right to education on a not mandatory guidance for simply taking extra precaution?

Both myself and my daughter do not go out without wearing a face mask which we have been doing so since March 2020 and she herself strongly agrees to wear one in school at all times for my safety. Having spoken to the senior managers and informing them of my NHS letter of previously shielding the school are still refusing, replying to me “it could open a floodgate!” but are they not digging a hole for them by denying a child education!

This guidance states for example when if it is mandatory to wear a face mask in school like corridors and communal areas but a child refuses to wear a face mask, then no one should be excluded from education for not wearing a face mask.

My child wants to wear one for hers and my safety without affecting anyone else’s liberty and yet she is being excluded from education.

Your thoughts will be appreciated.

OP posts:
pastandpresent · 30/09/2020 09:20

8don't let her wear one

pastandpresent · 30/09/2020 09:19

I think this is ridiculous. My dc's school made it mandatory to wear mask. Before that, it wasn't recommended, but was a choice.
I find it really hard to understand why the school let her wear one if she wants to.
Obviously we really aren't sure the effect of wearing a mask, but if it really help the child and her parents feel reassured wearing one, I don't understand why not. It's not going to cause huge trouble to anyone else.

EarringsandLipstick · 29/09/2020 23:34

It really depends on the quality of mask though.

True.

And in a medical setting they change them regularly and in accordance with best practice.

There's no way OP's DD is doing all that.

Sumh · 29/09/2020 15:45

Hi, no they could mention that they are helping me because of my circumstance but no acknowledgement whatsoever.

OP posts:
JessJonesJumps · 29/09/2020 15:33

Your school's response is odd. Most schools are allowing DCs/parents to choose.
On that basis, I'd try to find out the policy in other schools in your LA and then write to your school asking why they are isolating your DC.
It may be they are isolating them as an extra precaution and not as a punishment.

Sumh · 29/09/2020 15:17

Hi as I said your thoughts will be appreciated and I thank everyone for posting their opinions.

OP posts:
Quarterback11 · 29/09/2020 14:18

Haven't rtft but I'm in Ireland and all secondary school pupils have to wear masks.

LolaSmiles · 29/09/2020 14:15

When pupils are home isolating because someone in class was tested positive is an unnecessary educational disruption for unwilling to take up one simple additional precaution but yet you would be fined elsewhere!
Wearing or not wearing a mask doesn't change the procedures for isolating a bubble,
If the child positive did wear a mask then may be only those children within 2m are told to isolate.
Should everyone voluntarily wore one then may be just the confirmed child and the child sitting next to her in class are told to isolate. Everyone else keeps learning and the teacher stays too thus not worrying about current teacher shortage due to isolation as many schools are reporting

That's not how it works.
At this point you've now tried to argue the law says something different to what it does and now you're trying to make arguments about how schools isolate bubbles. Clearly you've decided that you're totally right and everyone else is wrong so it's almost pointless explaining further as whatever people say you're going to argue you know best.

monkeytennis97 · 29/09/2020 14:08

@happywearingmymaskallday I agree. I would let her wear it, in fact I would thank her. I'm a secondary teacher who wears a mask all day. The guidance from Boris and co is dreadful.

Sumh · 29/09/2020 13:42

Thankyou and I pray I don’t add any additional burden to any Ward SisterS or the NHS by not using my common sense to stay alert stay safe and save lives.

OP posts:
Sumh · 29/09/2020 13:37

No it doesn’t eliminate nor does distancing or any form of measure one could take, however every precaution you can take In combination is a common sense approach to protecting yourself and others around you. If I asked my daughter to be allowed to wear a Cow Boy hat to avoid glare of the sun in class then that would be unreasonable. Given then pandemic, many fines for not wearing one, ie accepting they work either from spreading and intake, including that press briefing podium now has three pictures with one as a face mask, our request is not unreasonable.

OP posts:
happywearingmymaskallday · 29/09/2020 13:34

This sort of thing males my blood boil. Im a ward sister I wear mine all day (and sometimes when I drive hime because I forgot Im wearing it!). Many of my NHS colleagues spoke out about the lack of masks etc they were not just thinking of protecting the patients and their colleagues they were thinking of protecting themselves.
There its some evidence that masks might reduce viral load and thus the severity of Covid19. If we are caring for patients with Covids19 or suspected Covid19 we put normal surgical masks on if there wasn't some chance that they weren't protecting us why would we bother? My colleagues and I have come into contact with patients with Covid19 and we haven't got it, is this luck or are they doing something? They must be costing the NHS a fortune my trust goes through over 100,000in three days apparently would the already strapped for cash NHS really fund them if they were doing nothing to protect the staff? .
OP I can understand where you're coming from of course your DD wants to protect you, I don't get the idea that you cant control a class if you're wearing one, or any of the other excuses people put forward for not wearing one. I wear one all day during the summer months in building devoid of air conditioning but with no proper opening windows the temp exceeded 30 degrees at times and we wear a plastic gloves and apron as well, I teach a class full of students in mine ok its not easy but I do it, I manage staff, care for patients, diffuse difficult situations, liaise with hundreds if people, answer the phone 1/2 a million times a day, support bereaved relatives and God knows what else, you can do anything in one on you want too or have too. Its just crap to say you cant do this and that in one you can. If there is even a remote possibility that they are protecting me from Covid19 I'll wear it till hell freezes over regardless of how uncomfortable it might be. If your DD believes that there is a remote possibility that she's stopping herself and then you from getting Covid19 then she should be allowed too wear one to school if she wants too.

Sumh · 29/09/2020 13:27

No!! She wears one at any one time but when she disposes the disposable she puts on the cloth mask.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 29/09/2020 12:38

OP is she wearing two masks because that might be an indication of what is happening

She should be allowed to wear a mask in the classroom but I wonder if part of the problem is that she desperately wants to have an education but feels that she could endanger you.

You have now put onto her that wearing a mask will enable her to be able to do it and although useful at reducing risk it certainly doesnt eliminate it

Malmontar · 29/09/2020 12:20

So she wears two masks??

Sumh · 29/09/2020 11:57

Thanks, I wasn’t too clear but she wears both 3 ply Type IIR disposable masks and 3 layer design cloth mask.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 29/09/2020 11:51

OP a mask is a very useful tool to have in the fight against Coronavirus spread but it is just that a tool.

Even if masks were worn in a classroom I would still expect everyone in close contact

Remember SD with a mask is still 1m - that isnt what you get in the classroom.

It is great that your daughter wants to help have another level of protection (and it will help reduce) and as a PP said in order to be the most effective it would need to be a medical grade mask

The plain cloth mask your DD wears will help reduce spread and load but I am not sure to the extent you seem to think it will

HandfulofDust · 29/09/2020 11:48

There is actually evidence that face masks offer some protection to the wearer. It's unlikely to completely prevent infection but reduces the viral load recieved. Either way her face mask isn't harming anyone so she should be allowed in the classroom.

Sumh · 29/09/2020 11:45

When pupils are home isolating because someone in class was tested positive is an unnecessary educational disruption for unwilling to take up one simple additional precaution but yet you would be fined elsewhere!

Since a mask prevents to great extent both spread and intake according to government and Oxford Uni scientists, only the confirmed child whether wearing a mask or not and any other child who did not wear a mask could have been told to isolate, and keep back those who did wear a mask in school.
If the child positive did wear a mask then may be only those children within 2m are told to isolate.
Should everyone voluntarily wore one then may be just the confirmed child and the child sitting next to her in class are told to isolate. Everyone else keeps learning and the teacher stays too thus not worrying about current teacher shortage due to isolation as many schools are reporting.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 29/09/2020 10:57

The OP says she wears a plain cloth face mask - which probably actually doesnt do very much

rorosemary · 29/09/2020 10:22

@EarringsandLipstick

If face masks don't protect the wearer then why do the doctors and nurses caring for covid patients wear them?
Oh God @rorosemary

They wear high-grade, medical quality masks.*

Maybe the OPs child also does? I do. I wear proper masks, still people online tell me that it won't protect me. Plenty of people have access to proper masks and use them. But in every mask thread people are claiming that masks don't work. It really depends on the quality of mask though.

MadameBlobby · 29/09/2020 10:11

You have plainly terrified your daughter into thinking she must wear a face mask at all times to prevent you from dying. I find this absolutely horrifying. Much worse than what the school have done, which is also wrong.

HattonsMustard · 29/09/2020 09:59

We are in a local lockdown area and even our children are not wearing masks in classrooms just corridors. They have to remove them when they come into the classroom, sanitise hands, remove mask and put it into a ziplock bag, sanitise hands again.

The local council has said this
‘In secondary schools staff, visitors and pupils must wear face coverings in corridors and communal areas where social distancing is difficult to maintain. They do not need to wear face coverings in classrooms where protective measures are in place.’

The school, I feel, has done a lot to safeguard the children, from limiting classroom changes, keeping year groups apart in both buildings and classrooms, staggered entry times, different gates, hand washing before entering the building with outside sinks, lanyard cards so no more biometric payments for lunch, a grab lunch system etc.

Your DD is receiving an education, the exact same one she would be receiving if she was in isolation (I believe they have worksheets in there) it may not include a teacher but then neither did lockdown learning online for us.

prh47bridge · 29/09/2020 00:21

@Sumh

I’m not a legal expert but is this any relevant?

Education Act 1996

“Pupils to be educated in accordance with parents’ wishes.

In exercising or performing all their respective powers and duties under the Education Acts, the Secretary of [F1State and [F2local authorities]] shall have regard to the general principle that pupils are to be educated in accordance with the wishes of their parents, so far as that is compatible with the provision of efficient instruction and training and the avoidance of unreasonable public expenditure.

No, I'm afraid not. That is aimed at the Secretary of State and the LA, not at individual schools.

The relevant legislation is the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 which gives heads and governing bodies wide powers to make and enforce rules. Your school is entitled to insist that pupils do not wear masks in class and enforce that rule.

LolaSmiles · 28/09/2020 20:11

By school following a guidance which is full of words like ‘may’ ‘not necessary’ ‘it’s an advise not mandatory’ are they not breaking any other law by denying education, like the education act 1996, section 9?
Schools are free to draw up their procedures in light of the guidance.
Different schools will have different risk assessments depending on size, buildings, air flow to rooms, cohort, any teaching and learning factors such as SEND/EAL, their timetables, how they're able to bubble pupils, logistics of keeping bubbles apart and so on.

This thread is starting to sound more like you've decided you want your own way and are seeking people to pat you on the back and agree with you.

FWIW, my school is compulsory masks in communal areas for all and optional in class. I agree with this approach, but my person opinion about how things should work is irrelevant to whether other schools are allowed to do things differently.