Can someone explain ISEB to me?

Goodness!! My child is in the high average/above average category (top 40%) so quite a distance from the top 4% you are talking about (we've certainly not gone for a super selective).

If they are naturally gifted, then not much prep to do, just familiarisation I think and lots of positive affirmations as I feel positivity and confidence can be the difference between a good or bad performance. The mocks meant we could tell her "we know you can do it", "you know what to do", "Just do the same as you have already done and you'll be fine" etc. The test was meant to be split over two days but with COVID they only wanted one instance of her being on site when she isn't from the school so it was all four tests in one go. Quite tiring so at last she had practised this and knew what to expect from the morning.

It sounds like you care very much. It is indeed worrying when it's in their hands and you cannot do anything for them, except offer moral support.

Super selectives do sound fierce and clearly there are some very bright and exceptional children.

@EnolanotAlone my child did the ISEB on Tuesday and said it was exactly like ATOM. She spent the last two weekends doing the mocks in full (all four subjects in one go to mirror the test) and she was consistent in her scores. She had improved slightly from the mocks done a month a go. I think it's important children know they are not going to be able to answer every question - unless a genius - but can still do really well ("In an adaptive test, all pupils sit different questions and should roughly answer the same percentage of questions correctly, regardless of attainment - around 50%. Answering 50% of questions correctly allows the test-maker to derive the most accurate score for the student.").

It's annoying they cannot go back to previous questions to review answers or ones they may want to skip and try it they have time at the end, but everyone is in the same position.

I would second what wombat chocolate has said. Its important to familiarise your DC with the style of the test and the type of questions (which require similar skills to the ones you would be practicing in preparation for 11+). A few practice tests is probably all it takes to get up to speed. If you DC is good at comprehension they will do well in the multiple choice comprehension and if they are good at math they will do well in the math. Likewise with the VR and NVR, even if most of the practice has been done on paper up until now. I think the format is actually a lot easier and less stressful than the usual pretests which include long written comprehensions (which boys struggle with at this age) and writing stories (which kids can be tutored for in order to regurgitate on the day of the exam).

We are also trialling Atom and finding the platform useful in these early days. However there is an increasing part of me that equally doesn’t want to fully rely on Atom as the sole means test
Prep for mocks, we have no idea how similar the ISEB platform will be. This i believe, is the downside, with 11+ moving online with ISEB - children are now at a disadvantage to using new platform that is ‘one way’ street adaptive testing. There are not many alternative ways to prepare for the ISEB.

Traditional papers based allows for ease of reviewing all questions and knowing how far through the test they are against the time clock.
I hope our children are given due consideration with this format thrust upon us all.

Thanks all. It’s really all very interesting, thinking about the different dynamics. In the independent sector, there are also schools that follow through to secondary and don’t prepare DC, because they want them to stay on.
I guess one of the good things about atom learning also is that it helps to highlight weak areas and so we can focus on these, This is crucial for us now, as there isn’t that much time left and going through all the atom learning modules isn’t an option.

@noughtmare

oceane do schools take into account whether someone has been state or private? Who told you that? I thought the selections tests were the main then?

I'd love to know DD's CAT scores - it would make me feel much better about whether we are barking up the wrong tree with our applications. However, our (state) school refuse to give out a single mark other than below/ at or exceeding expectations.

I believe ISEB standardised scores are based on the national average, in the same way as the CAT tests they do at school. Based on this methodology the required score for very selective schools would be 125-130+.
If ISEB scores were to be based on applicant scores (Atom methodology) then you can lower these scores by about 10 points which is I believe the difference in cognitive ability between the national average and the average of applicants sitting these tests.

This explains scores on ATOM from their FAQ

"When pupils sit a mock test, they are given a Standard Age Score (SAS), just like in a real adaptive test e.g. the ISEB Common Pre-Tests. This is their overall raw score adjusted for their age and placed on a scale relative to all other users on the platform.

The Standard Age Score takes into account the difficulty of the questions that were answered correctly and incorrectly to provide an attainment estimate. The attainment estimate is then standardised against all other users (taking age into account), to provide an estimate of where the student sits among all other users on the platform in terms of their attainment.

Just as the ISEB Common Pre-Tests, we use a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15; this means that if your child scores 100 in a mock test, 50% of students would have scored higher than them and 50% would have scored lower.

Please note that the Atom Learning SASs are standardised to students who have used the platform, who are predominantly students from top UK preparatory schools. This means that your child’s SAS scores on Atom will likely be lower than their CAT scores that are standardised across students nationally. Therefore, parents and students should not be disheartened if the SAS is much lower than they are used to - this is merely a reflection of the pool of students on the platform.

As our tests are adaptive, we do not use a percentage to grade the student. In an adaptive test, all pupils sit different questions and should roughly answer the same percentage of questions correctly, regardless of attainment - around 50%. Answering 50% of questions correctly allows the test-maker to derive the most accurate score for the student."

I don't know if ISEB uses a national average or the average of the pool of students sitting for that school to determine a pass rate.

oceane do schools take into account whether someone has been state or private? Who told you that? I thought the selections tests were the main then?

@WarmAndco3y Based on the information provided by PP I would expect children need to score at least 115-120 on Atom to stand a chance for very selective schools such as jags and alleyns as would imply real scores of 125-130+ (assuming Atom scores are 10 points below the real test).

We’ve been told that schools will be taking into account the timing of sitting the ISEB test in the overall appreciation just like they take into account a state school vs prep school background, the age of the child etc

As far as we are concerned, we have around 6 weeks until DD sits her pretest and I think it’s more than enough as she will probably be at her “peak” by then. A

Where does everyone think schools like Alleyn’s and JAGS fit into, in terms of selectivity, as well as range of Atom learning mock scores that would be required.

I’m completely new to ISEB and just also trying to get my head around when DD should be sitting the test in terms of preparedness. So we may have to make the difficult decision of dropping some schools off our list.

I have also found on Atom learning, only used it once so far and it was for a mock exam, it’s not straightforward moving from one paper to the next

I think the early exams will give more time to interview in Jan when the numbers invited into school will be smaller at a time.

I feel I have hi-jacked this thread so have started another one.

I would be interested in others experience of atom learning.

Is 5000 questions enough for atom to sit the grammar tests?

He obviously prefers what he excels at - Maths. So maybe English and non verbal have been neglected.

So he did a at olaves test and got 100 percent - And in record time?

I know with atom that there is an element of chance?

It was maths so I am going to see if he can sit the other elements of the paper.

He chose to do the test - I did not push him.

I felt he had to cover a great deal of ground work because the primary school experience has not been great. So a great deal of key stage 2 curriculum has been new.

Any way the work done must end up being useful for secondary.

He has worked very hard. I’m not sure if needing to work to hard is a good thing (even though it is a great quality). Selective schools will complete work at a fast pace and it will be difficult for him if he needs to work v hard to keep up...

Recently marks are above 120

More often than not they are between 108 and 118

He had some really poor results when he first used the mock test area and it caused him to feel demotivated.

Stainines I mean .. ofcourse I may well need statins after this 11 plus process.

Yes I can see the statins and sas.

The percentage I was quoting is different and relates to the overall progress - so as someone explained that was the percentage that my son would get a question correct ?

Thanks Montileu he has got over 20,000 ALPs.

on the ATOM website it says that anything above 120 in SAS is high if that helps ?
Please can I ask how many ALP he has accumulated ?
otherwise where do you see the % ? I can only see the SAS and stanine and decile.

Thank you yes he has worked hard.

I had not really realised as I always felt he did not do that much so that is a good thing about atom I suppose in capturing the time and effort!